What does spiritual development actually mean?

Originally Posted by Emm

My own personal understanding of being without ego is when we move to action that doesn't involve the mind...an instant motivation. I'm sure we've all seen or remember occasions of what that looks like...a heroic act where the hero themselves denies the title simply because they sprung into action without thinking about it and were amazed themselves of what they were capable of. That to me its an example of our spiritual intelligence that is always present...its what I guess the spiritual seeker, the ego, is looking for.

So I can't see how being without ego would make you dysfunctional physically or mentally, in fact the opposite would be true. Spiritual intelligence in fact is far more aware and focused in our present moment than the ego can ever be with mind thoughts being anywhere other than the present. Thoughts are just words that we identify ourselves with but they are not us...but intelligence has no needs for words, the entire message is instant and you just know and act...and the ego then goes back to re-member what has just taken place.

That's how I see it anyway

With respect Emm, this is where it all begins. If you're really looking for understanding then -

https://frithluton.com/articles/ego/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw9zSMsKcwk

To hot the nail on the head, the ego gives you a sense of I am, essentially it's the point of reference for your experiential existence. According to Jung, what most people call the ego isn't the ego itself but the 'contents' of the ego, and that's the key understanding. Once you lose that central reference point you completely lose all sense of self and from a mental health perspective, you become dysfunctional in relation to how disconnected from your ego you are. If you're having trouble relating to yourself as a person then it's fairly mild, but at the other end of the scale you can end up on a psyche ward, Believe me it's not pretty, and I'm talking from experience not theory.

"I am" is your ego, "I am Spiritual" is the 'contents' of your ego or what's inside it. Similarly, "I am" is your ego and "I am better than you" is the 'contents'. "I am" is your ego, "more Spiritual, have more Spiritual knowledge".... you get the idea. If you don't have en ego, clinically, then you aren't functional enough to find your way onto your keyboard. If I called you an ignorant clown and your reaction is to want to beat me with a baseball bat, you have an ego.

If you have no ego you can't be hurt, offended, betrayed......

Where things start to go sideways is when you label yourself as Spiritual. In short, when you define what is Spiritual, by extension you define what is not Spiritual. The irony is that only Isness is inherent in anything, and everything else is of the egoic mind. When you call yourself a 'Spiritual person', what you're actually doing is programming your paradigm and buying into your own narrative. This is Spiritual and this isn't. It's OK to study Tolle but not Jung because even though your Spiritual framework is mostly psychological, he's not a Spiritual master.

This is where you're falling down, with respect Emm. What is Spiritual intelligence? To me intelligence is of the egoic mind and prefixing it with 'Spiritual' is trying to 'elevate' intelligence or the egoic mind to a state of divinity. And no, words are not us but if that is the case then why are you identifying with the word 'Spiritual'? Spiritual 'you', Spiritual seeker, Spiritual intelligence... No criticism intended by the way. Words are needed for understanding and the correct word brings the correct understanding, and if you don't like being corrected then your ego is at work. The correct word for your "Spiritual intelligence" I would think is Gnosis, which means very simply "knowing without knowing how you know." Don't believe me, go look it up. It's from the same level of consciousness as intuition and is what Tolle would call 'space consciousness'. Anything to do with brain-mind and the electrical and chemical processes - knowledge, thinking, reasoning.

From a purely Spiritual perspective 'ego' is the wrong word, because what you ascribe as being of the ego has been 'filtered' via your definitions of the word, whatever they may be. The Hindus called it 'Maya' or 'false or conditioned self', while Samadhi is the dissolution of that false self. It;s when you understand it from that perspective and not through the lens of your won definitions that it all makes sense.

Words are expressions or extensions of us and the words we use have power over us. They programme your paradigm and that is subconscious, and your subconscious is 95% of your consciousness while your conscious is only 5%. The moral of the tale is to make sure of what you're buying into, because that will then put you on that particular track. Everything that's not compatible with that track is then subconsciously dismissed.

Originally Posted by Altair

Yes, they're interconnected, deeply so. Religion basically means 'communing with the divine'. Spirituality has been used in modern times as a catchy and trendy thing outside of religion, which is deemed structured, exoteric, and collectivist, whereas spirituality is often touted as individualistic and esoteric. However, by defining it we are already creating boundaries, 'rules', agreed-upon 'truths', etc. All the guidelines and 'practices', guru's and scriptures in paths already very much indicate structure, discipline, and order. Spirituality becomes the very thing they wanted it not to be. This is ironic..

Being honest, the irony hasn't escaped me either but then sometimes people are just people, man. As the saying goes, "God made man, man made religion." It's also been said that "If you want to understand Spirit you have to think like Spirit." Spirit doesn't think or spend any time in forums.

[Anne]

Piping up from the peanut gallery, I wish to thank Greenslade and Daz for their recent heartfelt exchange.

For me, ‘spiritual development’ means working with what one perceives to be the best version of self, and to each his own.

It does not require an extended vocabulary or an encyclopedia to figure this stuff out.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Anne

For me, ‘spiritual development’ means working with what one perceives to be the best version of self, and to each his own.

It does not require an extended vocabulary or an encyclopedia to figure this stuff out.

Two points concerning this..

1) You'll be complimented for this, but some people will miss the point entirely, and continue using abstract concepts to describe what is spiritual and what is not, and anyone agreeing with said definitions they use will be 'aware' and those who disagree will simply be cast aside..

2) Enjoy your spiritual development, however, the very moment you enter into communication, even more so here when it concerns only what's written down, you enter the realm of words, concepts, definition, language barriers etc. To communicate properly we do need some standardizations..

[Emm]

Originally Posted by Altair

GS is right in pointing out the concept 'ego' comes from psychologists. Ignoring this, waving it away, and creating some other definition that somehow fits ''holy'' scriptures that many are doing is an entirely different thing though. You may have an agreed-upon definition and use it to give ''meaning'' to your life, separate what you think is 'real' and what isn't, but to me it has zero meaning. I do not conduct my life and activities imagining A is real and B is unreal, I am a practical thinker and what you consider ''necessary'' I consider more mental games that you need in order to structure your life and your experiences..

If you find it hard to explain, perhaps keep it simple and drop such abstractions. Assuming that you are ''somewhere'' in contrast to other people is you accepting specific definitions, and understanding and placing those who ''accept'' your definitions in camp a and those who don't in camp b, but you don't really know, do you? All you rely upon here is language and agreed-upon definitions and ''truths''. It's truly remarkable how people imagine so much about others on here, and yet not realizing they're not discussing or engaging, but relying on mystic pontifications. Don't see or experience that at all with people I know personally who are into spirituality..

To be perfectly honest I'm not as well read as many of you on here...so often what is said goes over my head neither am I religious or follow any religion or philosophy. What I wrote comes practically from personal experiences and things I've witnessed myself in others, and of course I do look up some of those experiences to get others perspectives and maybe a little more clarity. However I don't consider myself gullible, I have a healthy amount of skepticism coupled with an open mind so I won't throw out the baby with the bath water so to speak. I try to listen carefully with what is being said but don't always get it right and can misunderstand...as can we all.

I'm sorry if what I wrote seems to have offended you, I wasn't trying to belittle anyone just pointing out something I had personally observed both in myself and others stories. None of us live a life without some kind of drama occurring and its in those moments that we can witness something extraordinary which can't be written in some text book if we are open to seeing it. You have to have experienced the thing itself. This was my original point...and Tolle is right when he says that "words don't teach, they can only point" but it seems not even that is enough.

I don't like referring to my particular past dramas, not because I'm afraid to go there but because I've left it behind me where it belongs, I like to think I've learned what I need and moved on. But sometimes explanation is necessary. Where I live we experienced a major earthquake, lives were lost and so was our city. Half of our residential areas were filled with silt rising from the ground, water was off and so was the electricity. We had to dig holes in the ground for our toilet and in the meantime experiencing violent aftershocks every 15 mins. But what I witnessed was not the distruction of a community but a beautiful unified people working together immediately helping those around them. Teenagers, who normally would spend most of their evenings having a good time when they could grab it and getting a bad name for it, had got themselves organised to help dig out all that silt that was seeping through homes and gardens. Food and water was distributed to those in need...not by some council but by ordinary people who just sprung into action. You could literally feel the love being poured out around us, it was perfect to watch. That in my view was a spiritual experience. Of course in the later months we revert back to our 'normal' selves and the complaining starts but ...I'll never forget the change in so many in an instant...and this is part of what I was remembering in my initial post on this thread.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Altair

2) Enjoy your spiritual development, however, the very moment you enter into communication, even more so here when it concerns only what's written down, you enter the realm of words, concepts, definition, language barriers etc. To communicate properly we do need some standardizations..

EXACTLY!

Two people may be speaking exactly the same language, in this case, English, but one of them could just as well be speaking in Swahili as far as the other is concerned.

When we converse, there are two "mental filters" involved; two separate perceptions of a single reality and whatever is said about that, needs to pass through both, to be understood by the recipient, in exactly the same way as the "sender" conceptualised or conceived of it...which is rarely ever the case.

We can make the attempt to clarify our arguments, but unless we speak our piece in a way others can understand it, the best one could ever hope for is a sideways glance...this is why extended periods of silence is beneficial, because only 17% of our communication is verbal...but the other 83℅ of it isn't obvious on an internet forum such as this.

It reminds me about the biblical story about the "Tower of Babel"...A metaphor which is beautifully illustrated here.

The higher and loftier our spiritual ideals, the harder it becomes to communicate...we are thus left keeping our spiritual experiences to ourselves, saying "that is personal" and discuss the weather instead...however, politics and philosophy always gets the same treatment as religion/spirituality does..thus, we look for "safe" options in our interpersonal communications.

I have often wondered what the purpose of this forum is, apart from being "brain candy" for those with an "agenda"...even if that agenda, is to "share ideas" because when it comes to sharing, there needs to be a 'giver,' and a 'recipient'...but when it comes to spiritual practices and philosophies, everyone seems to just be a "giver" and there is little to no reciprocating or interaction beyond saying "I agree/disagree with you" and that's as far as it ever goes.

"Language development" is another one of my many "things" I do and right now, I am comparing the languages of chaste Tamil, to that of the Berber tribes of Cameroon in West Africa.

During the process, I learned that the Tamil word for "dog" is "lolla"...called thus, because a dog has a drooping tongue.."lolla" actually means "drooping tongue" in Tamil, which came to symbolise the "dog".

After that, I was hit by a bolt of cosmic lightning...

In English, we also have a word for "having a drooping tongue" called "lolling" and I was able to trace an Indo-European word, back to proto Indo- European...Go me!

I will crack the Indus Valley Script one day, by its comparison to Tefinagh (African) via Rongo Rongo (Easter Island)...which actually means "sweet potato" in Rapanui by the way.

See... everybody's eyes are glassing over.

It is called "the curse of intelligence"...but that's just who we are..so with that, time for a musical offering before I bow out and go study written script similarities between all ancient races which lived during the Iron Age...toodles.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ldXdnZtTWp8

Originally Posted by Anne

Piping up from the peanut gallery, I wish to thank Greenslade and Daz for their recent heartfelt exchange.

For me, ‘spiritual development’ means working with what one perceives to be the best version of self, and to each his own.

It does not require an extended vocabulary or an encyclopedia to figure this stuff out.

Will you quit tossing those peanuts already?

Thank you, much appreciated.

The problem is that this is Spirituality and there are no central bodies or standards organisations that hold definitions that everyone can subscribe to, what one sees as Spiritual another sees as religious. And that's where it all goes sideways. People have their own definitions and therefore their own realities as filtered by those definitions. "This is Spiritual, that isn't."

Einstein said "If you can't explain it to a six-year-old you don't know what you're talking about." Einstein was a smart cookie, allegedly.

Are you sufficiently Spiritually developed when you don't feel the need to use the word?

Originally Posted by Altair

Two points concerning this..

1) You'll be complimented for this, but some people will miss the point entirely, and continue using abstract concepts to describe what is spiritual and what is not, and anyone agreeing with said definitions they use will be 'aware' and those who disagree will simply be cast aside..

Can I point out that these processes are of the egoic mind?

When you connect with "I Am" and the Isness of things the need for any of those processes fall away.

Originally Posted by Emm

To be perfectly honest I'm not as well read as many of you on here...so often what is said goes over my head neither am I religious or follow any religion or philosophy. What I wrote comes practically from personal experiences and things I've witnessed myself in others, and of course I do look up some of those experiences to get others perspectives and maybe a little more clarity. However I don't consider myself gullible, I have a healthy amount of skepticism coupled with an open mind so I won't throw out the baby with the bath water so to speak. I try to listen carefully with what is being said but don't always get it right and can misunderstand...as can we all.

Being perfectly honest means you're off the the best of starts, and having an open mind is a blessing. For me personally, a closed mind is a curse.

"Take what resonates with you as your own Truth, leave the rest behind because it is not yours."


You are who and what you need to be, and if you needed to be someone else you would be. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by Emm

Food and water was distributed to those in need...not by some council but by ordinary people who just sprung into action. You could literally feel the love being poured out around us, it was perfect to watch. That in my view was a spiritual experience.

I'd agree whole-heartedly.

Originally Posted by Altair

Ignoring this, waving it away, and creating some other definition that somehow fits ''holy'' scriptures that many are doing is an entirely different thing though.

“Unfortunately there can be no doubt that man is, on the whole, less good than he imagines himself or wants to be. Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is. At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions.” (Carl Jung)