Is consciousness nondual?

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Holy crab. I think I just realised that thoughts are also manifestations.

Yes they are, but manifestations of what?

As you said,
"but to learn to more easily more consciously how tl ACHIEVE no thought, and recognize it also"

Take the time to look at our thoughts, not just the veneer but the nature of them, and become conscious of what they tell you. They have their reasons.

[inavalan]

Thoughts aren't manifestations.

Thoughts are awareness creatively tending to perceptions. They are triggered by conscious and unconscious perceptions, and form beliefs that manifest into thought-forms and actions.

Originally Posted by inavalan

I expressed my view, which contrasts with yours.

Same here and I don't have a problem with that.

Originally Posted by inavalan

Put aside ALL your current beliefs, everything you read or heard from the gurus and dogmas you follow, and start getting in touch with your inner-source of knowledge and guidance! If you don't make that effort, whatever you experience is detrimentally distorted.

Meditation and Self-inquiry don't count? The method of Advaita is not belief, but internal exploration and discovery. Isn't that what you advocate?

Originally Posted by inavalan

They are triggered by conscious and unconscious perceptions,

They are the result of unconscious processes that arise out of the unconscious and into awareness. What they manifest is your internal reality. A similar process happens with beliefs.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

They are the result of unconscious processes that arise out of the unconscious and into awareness. What they manifest is your internal reality. A similar process happens with beliefs.

Maybe we say about the same thing, but nuances can make a difference.

unconscious processes that arise out of the unconscious ... That is to me unconscious perceptions, meaning using your inner-senses to perceive reality, inner and outer.

beliefs ... Again, the way I understand it, beliefs form from thoughts in the same way as an organ (e.g. an arm or a leg) is formed of cells, the body is formed of organs. Gestalts on top of gestalts.

An analogy would be with a computer in which the CPU is the awareness, that based on inputs (perceptions, inner and outer) executes routines / processes (thoughts), and stores the results (beliefs) that are used in subsequent computations.

Originally Posted by inavalan

unconscious processes that arise out of the unconscious ... That is to me unconscious perceptions, meaning using your inner-senses to perceive reality, inner and outer.

Thoughts and beliefs are the 'end result' of those unconscious process, as is the ego. One of those unconscious processes is your cognitive dissonance, which is triggered when you receive information that contradicts your paradigm. Simply, it acts as a 'filter'. It can evoke an emotional response and is why Spiritual people get heated up when their beliefs are contradicted. Another one that you've picked up on once or twice is cognitive behaviour, which is how people think. Constructive cognitive behaviour is equivalent to Right Thinking of the Eightfold Path, while destructive cognitive behaviour is being bonkers.

Your analogy as as close enough to make no odds, the only difference is that I'm a little more 'technical' since I've spent time looking into it.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Thoughts are awareness creatively tending to perceptions.

Does that awareness create vibrationally? Dualistically? Relatively, illusionarily, cyclicaly, frequentially, fractally?

And if the awareness can become non-dual, how is it able it able to enter a state of becoming again, after having entered a state of being, non-dual, unchanging. Because if the unchanging changes, it's not really unchanging, meaning, it didn't really become non-dual, right?

[Ewwerrin]

And if the unchanging non-dual awareness is, always has been and always will be unchanging. Then where does becoming come from? How does awareness become? Or does awareness never become? And if it doesn't become, then why is there so much change in awareness?
And if there isn't, then what are we experiencing actually? What is it exactly that we are being aware of, when we feel like we are aware of change?

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Take the time to look at our thoughts, not just the veneer but the nature of them, and become conscious of what they tell you. They have their reasons.

I just did, and they don't cycle linearly, or like a loop. They cycle vibrationally, polarly, using polarity that is interchangable and through distortion, it echoes infinite variety of the same polarity.

But no matter how different things become, it is all firmly eternally rooted in the same primary duality or polarity of also duality and non-duality, or the polarity of polarity and neutrality. Which is like a different variation from the essentially same polarity of negative and positive, which are always interchangeable for infinite varieties. It is like the primary aspect of my awareness. But since duality cannot identity self identity, then I am not able to also become aware of self. And then, if I am not awareness. Then what am I?

It is all dualistic in my experience. Not that I want it to be, atleast I assume that I am looking for something non-dual, even tho maybe it is suppose to be impossible?

Not just thoughts that are dualistic in my experience, but also awareness, and even its non-differentiated and differentiated, or nonvibrational and vibrational states. Without any time and space, pre time and space, pre mental chatter, pre universe even. And as it also, still the same dualities. And relativities, like what is before and after. And time. and no time. Or beyond time and within time.

I cannot find any ultimate self anywhere. Like the idea of all is one. There are infinite variation of that oneness. All inseperable and interconnected through dualistic relationships, like all one alone, all one together. Etc etc.
Infinite variations of the same duality ever.

Now... This does allow me to focus and experience things, as that is what awareness is. But when I try to experience something that is non-dual, or even attempt to become aware of it, it's all silent. Trying to find something that is non-dual, it seems like I have been doing this not just throughout all eternity, but also throughout all infinite dimensions of my eternal awareness. Altho, im not sure if I should call awareness eternal, because it is so impermanent and ever changing it seems. It almost seems like awareness flows and it cannot stop flowing.

And then from this silence, of not being able to comprehend or grasp or experience or become aware of non-duality... I assume maybe it doesn't exist. But then again, it does. Existence EXISTS. There is no non-existence. So how come non-duality opposes duality in that non-duality cannot be made aware, while duality is so easily made aware? Infact I don't recal ever having become aware of anything that is non-dual.

Sure many times I thought I was. But turns out, not even one thing, so far... And then there is the issue of before realising and after realising, incase that exists in a non-dual realisation.

Definitely I have a better chance when my brain is shut off, but then still... It is conditional and not non-duality. Not to mention, shutting off the brain too much or too often is not very healthy either I assume.

Not looking for an extreme, not lookig for what is beyond it or in the middle of it either. But what is non-dual. Non-relative. Absolutely unchanging. Not relatively and temporarily. Because that would imply that existence is a duality. And non-existence doesn't exist, so existence can never become a duality.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I just did, and they don't cycle linearly, or like a loop. They cycle vibrationally, polarly, using polarity that is interchangable and through distortion, it echoes infinite variety of the same polarity.

Existence is, how you experience it is up to you. Here's how it works, simply -
Your reality is defined by your perceptions, your perceptions are defined by your beliefs and your belief are defined by your definitions. When you define something as Dual, in your reality it is Dual. When you define something as Non-Dual, in your reality it is non-Dual. That is neither Duality nor non-Duality, it's namma-rupa.

The problem is that you have this 'thing' about Duality and non-Duality, which is the antithesis of non-Duality. If you want something that is non-Dual, stop having a thing about what is Dual and what is non-Dual because all you see is all you look at. Your thoughts just ARE, start from there. No definitions. They might be of Dual or non-Dual things but that's because your mind is on the rampage.

Your consciousness isn't bothered about time, your consciousness has it's own priorities so deal with your thoughts as they emerge.

You can't experience something that is non-Dual and you can't experience what is Dual, what you can experience is yourself.

If you don't like your reality you've only got yourself to blame. Make yourself a better one.