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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Islam Faith

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  #11  
Old 23-08-2021, 02:07 PM
somoo
Posts: n/a
 
1. Bible Says that God is not Man
The Bible says:

Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man…”

Hosea 11:9 “...For I am God, and not man...”

Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible:

John 8:40 “…a man who has told you the truth…”

Acts 2:22 “Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.”

Acts 17:31 “He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed”

1. Tim. 2:5 “…the man Christ Jesus.”

God is not a man, but Jesus, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was a man, therefore, Jesus was not God.

2. The Bible Says that God Is Not a Son of Man

Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man...nor a son of man…”

The Bible often calls Jesus “a son of man” or “the son of man.”

Matthew 12:40 “…so will the son of man be…”

Matthew 16:27 “For the son of man is going to come…”

Matthew 28 “…until they see the son of man coming in His kingdom.”

Mark 2:10 “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority…”

John 5:27 “…because He is the son of man.”

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the “son of man” is also used many times speaking of people (Job 25:6; Psalm 80:17; 144:3; Ezekiel 2:1; 2:3; 2:6; 2:8; 3:1; 3:3; 3:4; 3:10; 3:17; 3:25).

Since God would not contradict Himself by first saying He is not the son of a man, then becoming a human being who was called “the son of man”, he would not have done so. Remember God is not the author of confusion. Also, human beings, including Jesus, are called “son of man” specifically to distinguish them from God, who is not a “son of man” according to the Bible.

3. The Bible Says that Jesus Denied He is God

Luke 18:19 Jesus spoke to a man who had called him “good,” asking him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”

Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, “Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Jesus did not teach people that he was God. If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.

4. The Bible Says that God is Greater than Jesus

John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.”

John 10:29 “My father is greater than all.”

Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.

5. Jesus Never Instructed His Disciples to Worship Himself or the Holy Ghost, but God and God Only

Luke 11:2 “When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.”

John 16:23 “In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.”

John 4:23 “The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”

If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself. Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.

6. The Bible Says that Jesus Recognized, Prayed, & Worshipped the Only True God

Jesus prayed to God with the words:

John 17:3 “…that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”

Jesus prayed to God all night:

Luke 6:12 “he continued all night in prayer to God.”

…because:

Matthew 20:28: Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve.

How did Jesus pray to God?

Matthew 26:39 ‘…he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father…”

Even Paul said:

Hebrews 5:7 “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.”

Who was Jesus praying to when he fell on his face with loud cries and petitions? Was it himself? Was Jesus crying in tears to himself pleading to be saved from death? No man, sane or insane, prays to himself! Surely the answer must be a resounding ‘No.’ Jesus was praying to “the only true God.” Jesus was the servant of the One Who sent him. Can there be a clearer proof that Jesus was not God?

The Quran confirms that Jesus called for the worship of the Only True God:

“Truly, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (alone). This is the straight path.” (Quran 3:51
Sheikh Ahmed Deedat vs Sjoberg - Is Jesus God? [Debate]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCymLowlNEQ
  #12  
Old 23-08-2021, 04:10 PM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 1,099
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somoo
Muslims believe in a direct connection with the Almighty, without the need of an intercessor.

So, based on this direct line, every Muslim is his own authority on Islamic law then? This is not consistent with reality from my experiences. I was in Mogadishu one time and spotted a pair of someone's feet placed in the middle of a public square. They were chopped cleanly off just above the ankles. Another time, according to an Iranian woman I met in Kuala Lumpur, she said she was locked up, by the police, in a basement for three days for inappropriate conduct after she was seen greeting a male friend in public (spontaneously hugging him the way she would ordinarily have done in the west). Then, there was a personal experience of mine with regard to your notion of the Muslim belief in a direct connection with the Almighty: a Muslim friend who was staying with me was arrested when the police surrounded and barged into my house. They also took his Muslim girlfriend away. They were both with me after a night out in Bali.

Remember what you said? "The Qur’an and the Sunna stresses the importance of the organization of society - in an ideal way that is not found in other religions."(somoo)

What way is that? Looks to me like it is no different from the enforcement of law and order in the west except a lot more oppressive. Also, we can fight the prosecution in court; and, with enough financial heft, have the case quashed.
  #13  
Old 23-08-2021, 07:43 PM
somoo
Posts: n/a
 
Your words are illogical, just rumors to distort the image of Islam, like fake media

Muslims do not judge people according to their own mood. There is a law and a judiciary in every Islamic country that stems from the Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
The judiciary rules according to facts and evidence


Unless the state does not apply the law of Islam here only, it can happen, as you say, and it will be a repressive state that has moved away from the tolerant teachings of God and rules according to its whims, as happens in the West and in the countries of the East that are subject to the West
  #14  
Old 23-08-2021, 08:10 PM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 1,099
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somoo
This is exploited by Western democracies that support tyrants and dictatorships in the Arab region, and in other regions, the most oppressive and ignorant in the world, and support them politically and security to oppress peoples.

You are quite right about this. I don't understand why in every single instance, we Americans always back the wrong side and support the bad guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somoo
Will the people rule?

But the truth is that people's exercise of their right to vote does not actually mean anything, because money centers, large industrialists and wealthy people are the ones who have the real decision in the state.

Bingo! You are correct again. We have a wonderful constitution that was meant to give us a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. We believe that all people are created equal under God. It's is not a fake democracy. It's just that the smarter and quicker people do better in a society where we refuse to accept that not all of us have the superior ability.
  #15  
Old 23-08-2021, 08:26 PM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 1,099
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somoo
Your words are illogical, just rumors to distort the image of Islam, like fake media

You are calling me a liar, somoo. I related to you what I saw in Mogadishu, Kuala Lumpur, and Bali. I am distorting nothing, and cite them to challenge your contention: Muslims believe in a direct connection with the Almighty, without the need of an intercessor.

Muslims, like us, are subject to government authority. If every Muslim has direct connection to God, moral policing by intercessors would be haram.
  #16  
Old 23-08-2021, 09:39 PM
somoo
Posts: n/a
 
Whether you saw it or not, it is up to you
This is not related to the tolerant teachings of Islam that do not allow the killing of innocents
People's actions, traditions and customs are different from the tolerant teachings of Islam

As I said, a Muslim's relationship with God does not include a mediator or priest to whom Christians go to confess their sins and the priest asks God to forgive them.



Because it is God who forgives alone and not a priest who has no power or authority except by the Church and has no authority from God.


As I said
Muslims do not judge people according to their own mood. There is a law and a judiciary in every Islamic country that stems from the Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
The judiciary rules according to facts and evidence
  #17  
Old 24-08-2021, 02:40 AM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 1,099
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somoo
Whether you saw it or not, it is up to you
This is not related to the tolerant teachings of Islam that do not allow the killing of innocents
People's actions, traditions and customs are different from the tolerant teachings of Islam

Islam is tolerant. People are not. I agree with you on that. Expounding on the beauty of Islam is to wish on a star. Why do you do that, somoo?
  #18  
Old 24-08-2021, 04:34 AM
somoo
Posts: n/a
 
In every society a lost sheep

But that does not mean that all Muslims do this

This is if we assume that your words are true and that your stories are true

And the strange thing with all the accusations and lies directed against Islam

Islam spreads quickly and People convert to Islam

And the numbers increase and not decrease

God says in the Qur’an

(32) They want to extinguish the light of Allāh with their mouths, but Allāh refuses except to perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.
  #19  
Old 24-08-2021, 04:43 AM
somoo
Posts: n/a
 
Someone asked me why Jesus is not God and has not incarnated




The fact that


13 Bible Verses-God Never Changes …

Christians claim that in the birth of Jesus, there occurred the miracle of the incarnation of God in the form of a human being. To say that God became truly a human being invites a number of questions. Let us ask the following about the man-God Jesus. What happened to his foreskin after his circumcision (Luke 2:21)?

Did it ascend to heaven, or did it decompose as with any human piece of flesh? During his lifetime what happened to his hair, nails, and blood shed from wounds? Did the cells of his body die as in ordinary human beings? If his body did not function in a truly human way, he could not be truly human as well as truly God. Yet, if his body functioned exactly in a human way, this would nullify any claim to divinity. It would be impossible for any part of God, even if incarnate, to decompose in any way and still be considered God. The everlasting, one God, in whole or in part, does not die, disintegrate, or decompose: ‘For I the Lord do not change.’ (Malachi 3:6)

Did Jesus’ flesh dwell in safety after his death?
Unless Jesus’ body never underwent ‘decay’ during his lifetime he could not be God, but if it did not undergo ‘decay’ then he was not truly human.

Bible says that God is not man
‘God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19)
‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9)

Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible
‘a man who has told you the truth’ (John 8:40)

‘Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)

‘He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed’ (Acts 17:31)

‘the man Christ Jesus’ (Tim. 2:5)
The Bible says that Jesus denied he is God
Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.’ (Luke 18:19)

And he said to him, ‘Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ (Matthew 19:17)

Jesus did not teach people that he was God
If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.

The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus
‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)
‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)

Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.

Jesus never instructed his disciples to worship him
‘When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.’ (Luke 11:2)

‘In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.’ (John 16:23)
The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.’ (John 4:23)

If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself
Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God


من هو الإله الحق؟ هاشم ومنصور في حوار مع مسيحيين الجزء الأول
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRZKGcS9-Lg

من هو الإله الحق؟ هاشم ومنصور في حوار مع مسيحيين الجزء الثاني

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWfloKsBjzM
  #20  
Old 24-08-2021, 01:02 PM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 1,099
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somoo
Christians claim that in the birth of Jesus, there occurred the miracle of the incarnation of God in the form of a human being. To say that God became truly a human being invites a number of questions.

The questions you posed are based on your premise: the supposition of incarnation as you perceive it. And you proceed to take apart the theological concepts of another religion (Christianity) that appear illogical or even abhorrent to you. This is bigotry, somoo.

You said in post #7 that "People's actions, traditions and customs are different from the tolerant teachings of Islam."

Even if your take on Christian beliefs were true, do you have the ability or willingness to tolerate opinions you don't agree with? Can you live in accordance with the tolerant teachings of Islam?
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