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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #591  
Old 07-08-2022, 04:00 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Mizz H …

Good Grief YES ! This entire set of Lower Psychic Worlds overall belong to the Universal Mind. One HAS to be an “intellect” for a good number of incarnations … the number of which might surprise many. But since Soul Itself is a “progression” or “unfoldment” in all of Existence … it makes little to no matter where one is at the moment … you *will* move beyond that … given time. There is *always* another step … even to an authentic Master … and They will tell you such. One cannot make the second step until they make the first. Thing is … these “steps” often involve full lifetimes … often … more. To say that it can all drive you crazy is a true statement. Most spend at least a couple of lifetimes actually driven crazy by the struggles. It is often *not* a pleasant journey. My hat’s off to anyone that actually wants to take a cautious step into the Unknown.

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Still Waters …

The progress of the psychologies, religions, philosophies, cultures, etc. … all come from the inner revelations various individuals undergo. Without individuals such as the Buddha, Milarepa, Rumi, etc … there would be little understanding of what these worlds are all about … although I’m sure some other individual would have taken their place. All the psychologies given to us by Freud and Jung and etc. … good grief … where would we be without them? All the saints and lofty teachers … we would be more lost without them. Back up far enough and you can see the progression … the evolution if you will.

One thing that is interesting about today’s world … you can easily see … via eyes willing to see … that words and beliefs are severely twisted today by those that control such. Even with the availability of the internet … people are easily sent off on tangents. Without the internet … as most of our history has been … misleading and misdirecting people by claiming this-or-that was incredibly easy. So much of what we know and accept today … is a result of that.

Only the individual can come to the conclusion … “Well … if that’s true … than what IS the truth?” … and be willing to find out … each in their own time … in their own way … taking the level of risk they are willing to put forth. More often than not … it is more scary to “ego” … one’s treasured beliefs and habitual perceptions … than it is to the physical body.

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  #592  
Old 07-08-2022, 04:13 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
..and finally jump off the end of the diving board.
And we are all very proud of you!!!!! This was the perfect lifetime for you...and for many due to all the opportunities to learn ---books,
TV, lectures, gurus, yogis, the Ram Das-Timothy Leary influences, youtubes galore!
And who knows how the movements of the stars are influencing us!
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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


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  #593  
Old 07-08-2022, 04:47 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I've always thought that...I call them Left Brainers...they just can not get out of that intellect.
Intellect is a fine thing in moderation. LOL!
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  #594  
Old 08-08-2022, 12:10 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 592 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
This was the perfect lifetime for you...and for many due to all the opportunities to learn ---books,
TV, lectures, gurus, yogis, the Ram Das-Timothy Leary influences, youtubes galore!
I was just reflecting on that yesterday with a friend --- indeed what a perfect lifetime this has been for me. The question was raised regarding what time period and what position in life would be best if we could choose --- and I chose exactly who I am, exactly this time period, and exactly my current station in life ... for all the reasons that you gave.

That NDE many many years ago seemed horrible at the time but it was a mind-boggling, life-transforming experience that served as a catalyst to intense investigation of the Reality and meetings with extraordinary beings without whose guidance I might not be where I am today.

What a perfect lifetime this has been (as you duly pointed out) !
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  #595  
Old 08-08-2022, 12:27 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 591 EXCERPT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop

The progress of the psychologies, religions, philosophies, cultures, etc. … all come from the inner revelations various individuals undergo. Without individuals such as the Buddha, Milarepa, Rumi, etc … there would be little understanding of what these worlds are all about

... words and beliefs are severely twisted today by those that control such.

The Sufi Mystic Hazrat Inayat Khan, under whose son I practiced for a few years, was once asked what his religion was. He responded "Sanatana Dharma" and that response puzzled his questioner. Hazrat then added that "Sanatana Dharma" is the Eternal Truth from which all religions, psychologies, religions, etc. all come.

As you duly noted, I too sometimes wonder how far I would have progressed if it had not been for the guidance of individuals such as the Buddha, Milarepa, Rumi (whom you noted and who are among my favorites as well), and other extraordinary beings who manifested in my life.

However, as you also noted, "words and beliefs are severely twisted today by those who control" such writings and teachings. It can be a great challenge to discern truth even with the internet (and often in spite of the internet).

The world has truly been blessed by the presence of these extraordinary beings who have served as noble guides to all of us so that we don't have to "reinvent the proverbial wheel". Without their guidance, I know not what my current understanding of the Reality would have been.

Well said !
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  #596  
Old 08-08-2022, 12:45 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
QUOTE 592 EXCERPT: I was just reflecting on that yesterday with a friend --- indeed what a perfect lifetime this has been for me. The question was raised regarding what time period and what position in life would be best if we could choose --- and I chose exactly who I am, exactly this time period, and exactly my current station in life ...
I contemplated on this for decades and the conclusion I've come to is it couldn't have been any other way. The apparent universe is purely deterministic and I agree with the material reductionists that in this level of reality what we perceive as free will and consciousness are illusions, or if you prefer reflections of a deeper reality. I suppose it can also be phrased as the will of God.

What seemingly entangles us is apparent doership/cause & effect. As long as that is our operational paradigm we have no choice but to play it out, be buffeted to and fro.
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  #597  
Old 08-08-2022, 02:04 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Considerations 144 …

Truth is a Ladder …

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Truth is a sequential set of laws, regulations, or principles that lead in one direction or another … either upward ( positive / beneficial ) or perhaps downward ( negative / detrimental ) … these words used just to convey the concept … especially in the Lower Psychic Worlds where the “negative” is part of the game.

Taking this a bit further …
Truth is always colored by the vision that sees it.
Even within a group … the individual vision is the portrayal
of truth for that individual.

The concept or belief system you hold … of and within yourself … determines the scenery of your life. This perceptual stance is what you show to Divine Spirit … and is the “way” Divine Spirit recognizes you as the individual you are. During the long, long forays into the Lower Psychic Worlds … Divine Spirit cannot identify you because each blends into the overall cumulative arena and specific identity is somewhat lost. Karmic implications and attitudes prevail amongst the traditional information. Even so … the amended or modified level of Spirit knows each individual intricately. The exactness of the fingerprint pales by how extensively Spirit … and Divine Spirit … knows each individual.

For lack of a better word … there is a “magnetic” quality to each of us … individually … and it is this quality that “draws” us one way or another. Often known as the “aura” … this mostly defines our “psychic space” … and can be distinctly felt by those who have learned to do so. As a god-like example … Divine Spirit is the “aura” of the Core Creator God … dispersing the living force throughout existence. Our own personal “aura” is much the same … at the individual level. To Spirit … or Divine Spirit … this is individually more distinct than any known identification method. Your “aura” … is how Spirit at whatever level … knows you. IT’s recognition of “you” verses anyone else puts our identification methods to shame.

The world … and this could be expanded to state that LIFE IT-self … has no motive of IT’s own. I have offered many times that Divine Spirit does not have a “brain” that controls and regulates IT … save for the Core Creator God that issues it forth … which only does just that … issues IT forth. Again … there are entities kept in place to shape Divine Spirit into the necessary fundamentals … for lack of other words … and there are numerous lower “Gods” of the Lower Psychic Worlds that strongly regulate and form manifestations in these lower worlds. Call them angels, call them demons, call the spirits, call them whatever you wish … there is an established hierarchy to much of it.

Every moment of your life … waking or sleeping … you are assuming a “feeling” towards what you believe your life and yourself to be. More often than not … few are ever sitting somewhere and heavily pondering … “this is how I feel / this is my attitude.” These guidelines creep in so slowly … no one notices … until most any individual wishes to confront a specific in their life … and then one finds out just how strongly that hold is. Habits … rule.

Many believe that to “work beyond” or to “move beyond” mind is some kind of move into a “super-mind” … some kind of greater mental capacity to think greater thoughts and highly intellectual principles and concepts. So many of past and current “spiritual greats” are revered for just this approach. There is *nothing* wrong with this. Without these stances … no one would have anything to move forward towards.

Truth tends to build upon itself … mentally or otherwise. Truth builds … thought ( mental truth ) builds … ever outward nurtured by the outward expansion of LIFE.

Since Soul Itself is the regulator and dispenser of life on all levels … any limitation or unwanted conditions / experiences has to lie within the individual … one way or another … from whenever the cause was set in motion … to another. Self-imposed limitations are endless … mostly learned via ignorance … but this word is not used harshly. A first grader is ignorant of sixth grade material. There is a “ladder” to learning … and should be accepted as such. A young mother ponders starting a family and is “ignorant” compared to a mother of one or two or three living children. Searching for and considering new information abounds … whether it is truly beneficial or not depends on personal experience.

So … one gathers truth according to where they “are” and will continue to do so. Truth is relative to where one “is” … and there is always a “greater truth” beyond the current stance. We accept or reject … according to what we currently understand. Refuse to see truth … pretend that it is impossible to know what is true and what is not … distort truth … seek to mix it with untruth … attempt to deceive both ourselves and others … promote truth in an unattractive manner … then chaos will live in our lives. Our real inner body will be in conflict with our outer self … and we will continually find ourselves in the most unpleasant of situations. Claim to hold to a particular stance when it is clear to others that you are not … is up to you to discover. So much of growth lies in the capacity to … listen.

A massive downfall … it is common to accept current conditions as those upon which to assess and build … but this tends to make your “starting point” from current external conditions … which are effects … everything coming from the inside out … but by building upon current external conditions simply repeat conditions / situations of a similar nature. One just repeats the current limitations … most of them coming back to you in oh-so-slight variations that we miss the current thread running amongst them.

This is complicated because our current “inner” stance is simply reflected outward. The inner stance must change before the outer conditions will revise … and in the material worlds … this often takes time … because the growth in the material worlds is slowed by the rate of change in the physical. It takes time.

Slowly … we begin to live “beyond” ourselves … one step at a time … playing with the concepts that would be the ideal beyond where our current conditions hold us … giving them personal reality as we consider them / dream them / imagine them … sometimes moving from grades five to six … or grades eight to nine … or grades high school junior to senior … or into “college” level where it is less structured and classes are offered according to personal interest … then out into life beyond school to test what you’ve learned … most often following the traditions … until they no longer have understandable answers to the questions you still hold … the philosophies and religions as such promote only to various levels accepted by current teachings … and once the individual wishes to move beyond current traditions … you are pretty much on your own.

One tends to return to the traditional teachings since there is safety and comfort in knowing there are others beside you … even though they cannot quite answer the burning questions inside. This is when one begins to learn beyond information and data … and begins to develop the formless attributes of strength, courage, tolerance, forgiveness, patience, and so on … which one will mostly find are much more demanding and difficult to learn than data / information.

More next Monday.

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A 90-post index is found at thread post number 368 … page 37

A second index for posts 92 - 120 is on page 50 … post # 499


Both posts may move a bit due to welcomed moderator editing. They both will be in the “vicinity” of the above locations.

If sincere … I will respond to private messages


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  #598  
Old 08-08-2022, 02:34 PM
hazada guess hazada guess is offline
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Interesting zorkchop.I can relate to that post.
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  #599  
Old 08-08-2022, 10:42 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote 596 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
The apparent universe is purely deterministic and I agree with the material reductionists that in this level of reality what we perceive as free will and consciousness are illusions, or if you prefer reflections of a deeper reality.

What seemingly entangles us is apparent doership/cause & effect. As long as that is our operational paradigm we have no choice but to play it out, be buffeted to and fro.
Although apparent doership is indeed a factor in the entanglement, I'm not convinced that "the apparent universe is purely deterministic".

We are the "god" of our dream universes and yet virtually everyone gets entangled in a nightmare at one time or another.

Elaborate further. This sounds like predestination and that I'm not sure that you really want to go there.
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  #600  
Old 08-08-2022, 11:26 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Although apparent doership is indeed a factor in the entanglement, I'm not convinced that "the apparent universe is purely deterministic".

We are the "god" of our dream universes and yet virtually everyone gets entangled in a nightmare at one time or another.

This sounds like predestination and that I'm not sure that you really want to go there.
Some random thoughts on this.

If one had every bit of information about the universe at any given point in time and also knew all the fundamental laws of nature then in theory one should be able to accurately construct past and future from that point.

In a dream does the dream character have free will? If one attains lucidity then one understands the nature of that illusion..

It seems to me at the relative level of reality free will is tied at the hip to doership.

Of course if we view it from the Absolute level we can go to the verse neo-Advaita focuses on (Madukya Karaka 2:32). There is no dissolution, no birth, none in bondage, none aspiring for wisdom, no seeker of liberation and none liberated. This is the absolute truth.

Anyway that's where I'm coming from and if there is intrinsic vs. extrinsic free will at the relative level that seems to contradict the above verse.

It's kinda funny because for the longest time I vehemently disagreed with the material reductionist view and for spiritual reasons, but I now perceive a harmony and precisely for spiritual reasons.

Hey, there's a good chance I'm in error but it is what it is and it is where I'm at. LOL!

Last edited by JustASimpleGuy : 09-08-2022 at 12:52 AM.
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