Agreement

[Shivani Devi]

I posted this elsewhere...on the "Is Reality Perfect" thread, but I feel it bears a mention here also:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Due to my recent forays in the Non-Duality Forum and elsewhere...discussing Neo Advaita among other things...everybody saying "you don't need to do anything because you are already that"...I sit and wonder...just how many people are totally complacent with the knowledge "okay, so I am that...fair enough...is that all this spirituality thing IS? no big deal...I am that, you are that, everything is that...cool beans...and now, I can say and do what I want, even get angry, criticise others, not care about anything because I am that...and all that I am doing and saying is just a part of the 'that' which 'I am"...and how many of them have actually felt it deep inside? actually experienced this Oneness with the universe first-hand?...felt the awesome bliss?...the peace? the outpouring and inpouring of love?...danced around in ecstatic rapture?...had their brains and hearts expanded?...experienced a greater clarity of mind?...had their whole consciousness blown and ripped apart by this realisation?...never the same again? etc etc and how many just say "I am that" as they would say "I am *insert name*?"

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I saw a video of Mooji the other day in Rishikesh, giving satsanga there.

What struck me and stood out was he was wearing a very special mala (rosary).

It was comprised of 54 Gauri Shankar Rudrakshas (double, conjoined Rudrakshas), all gold-capped, with a huge eka mukhi rudraksha (single faced) at the end of it.

These types of rudraksha beads are extremely rare and on eBay, they can fetch between $800 - $900 each!

I was like "oh wow, I'm looking at a mala costing close on 100 grand here!" and it distracted me from the whole lecture. lol

Now there's some serious bling bling

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I saw a video of Mooji the other day in Rishikesh, giving satsanga there.

What struck me and stood out was he was wearing a very special mala (rosary).

It was comprised of 54 Gauri Shankar Rudrakshas (double, conjoined Rudrakshas), all gold-capped, with a huge eka mukhi rudraksha (single faced) at the end of it.

These types of rudraksha beads are extremely rare and on eBay, they can fetch between $800 - $900 each!here

I was like "oh wow, I'm looking at a mala costing close on 100 grand here!" and it distracted me from the whole lecture. lol

Woww big bucks even if it were an imitation lol, I'm sure your looking at fairly big money. Not bad for community College Arts teacher, they must have increased the wages since I was working in a college in London. lol I've noticed Mooji likes the more traditional things, people touching his feet etc. and the robe and all of that ? Maybe when they introduce the minimum wage for New age and neo advaitin gurus he will have to sell it and buy a cheaper type. Maybe he could sell it to Adyashanti ?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Woww big bucks even if it were an imitation lol, I'm sure your looking at fairly big money. Not bad for community College Arts teacher, they must have increased the wages since I was working in a college in London. lol I've notice Mooji likes the more traditional things, people touching his feet etc. and the robe and all of that ? Not sure if there is alot wrong in that but hey the weekend i went to see him, there was at least 300-400 people there each day for 3 days at 10 quid sterling ahead, so yep that necklace would cost two big events for mooji ?

Maybe it was a gift from a wealthy follower?, who knows how he got it.
It also could be an imitation, because you can't tell real gold from fake online either..but seeing as how I'd just like ONE Gauri Shankar but know I'll never be able to afford it...

[Shivani Devi]

Apart from Moojis wardrobe, any thoughts?

Due to my recent forays in the Non-Duality Forum and elsewhere...discussing Neo Advaita among other things...everybody saying "you don't need to do anything because you are already that"...I sit and wonder...just how many people are totally complacent with the knowledge "okay, so I am that...fair enough...is that all this spirituality thing IS? no big deal...I am that, you are that, everything is that...cool beans...and now, I can say and do what I want, even get angry, criticise others, not care about anything because I am that...and all that I am doing and saying is just a part of the 'that' which 'I am"...and how many of them have actually felt it deep inside? actually experienced this Oneness with the universe first-hand?...felt the awesome bliss?...the peace? the outpouring and inpouring of love?...danced around in ecstatic rapture?...had their brains and hearts expanded?...experienced a greater clarity of mind?...had their whole consciousness blown and ripped apart by this realisation?...never the same again? etc etc and how many just say "I am that" as they would say "I am *insert name*?"

[Shivani Devi]

...and I bet the post above will see no replies either. ;)

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Apart from Moojis wardrobe, any thoughts?

Due to my recent forays in the Non-Duality Forum and elsewhere...discussing Neo Advaita among other things...everybody saying "you don't need to do anything because you are already that"...I sit and wonder...just how many people are totally complacent with the knowledge "okay, so I am that...fair enough...is that all this spirituality thing IS? no big deal...I am that, you are that, everything is that...cool beans...and now, I can say and do what I want, even get angry, criticise others, not care about anything because I am that...and all that I am doing and saying is just a part of the 'that' which 'I am"...and how many of them have actually felt it deep inside? actually experienced this Oneness with the universe first-hand?...felt the awesome bliss?...the peace? the outpouring and inpouring of love?...danced around in ecstatic rapture?...had their brains and hearts expanded?...experienced a greater clarity of mind?...had their whole consciousness blown and ripped apart by this realisation?...never the same again? etc etc and how many just say "I am that" as they would say "I am *insert name*?"

Hi Shivani Devi, in the hope that you are still reading, I offer you this:

I used to believe people like .. Tony Parsons who said that after awakening .. the personality won't change, and there won't necessarily be any more joy, intimacy or compassion in life. In fact, after awakening, you could still be suicidally depressed, or violent, or even a serial killer, they said!

At first, it felt like such a relief to hear this radical and shocking message - it made awakening sound so simple, so down to earth, so accessible, so... ordinary. "Before awakening I'm a jerk, after awakening I'm a jerk. And I'm allowed to be a jerk now because I'm liberated and nobody can touch me. Oh and by the way, there is no me and no choice. Jerkness just happens. So what. Who cares. Get over it, sad seeker." The ego celebrated - it now had carte blanche. No responsibility! No punishment! Free reign! Nobody here! Yippee! The search was over!

I've come to see that this "neo-Advaita" message, as it's now known, is very one-sided. It's partially true, exquisitely simple, but it's not by any means the full picture (nothing is!) and can be so damaging if mis-spoken or mis-heard or mis-used.

- Jeff Foster

https://en-gb.facebook.com/LifeWitho...36682189762728

It seems to speak to what you mention, and is also affirmed by another poster on these Boards who noted that he was tired of people telling him that he was not enough and hence he vigorously defends Neo-Advaita (as it is his lifeline).

As to spiritual experiences, I trust many have had them, but not all talk of them. For those that haven't, it is probably normal to be skeptical, suspicious, or uninterested. It doesn't really matter (to me) as I do believe that those whom sincerely and accurately (relatively speaking) apply themselves to spiritual practice, they will receive the appropriate spiritual feedback. What matters more, in my opinion, is that practice is furthered.

BT

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Gem

Parsons is 'the teacher who knows' and that gives him power of influence, this entails resistance, and hence the exert and resist dynamic.

Hardly. There are many cult leaders with influence, there are Presidents with influence, there are spiritual leaders who know, and some who don't, some talk, others do not.

Spiritual teachers, where they are benign, have genuine realization, and help their followers know the high spiritual truths -- well, there cannot be enough of them.

BT

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I'm in congruence with what you say here and I have actually been to see the man himself, Tony the Parson on 2 occasions in London. I've also listened to several NA teachers whom I think are very genuine and clever people, clever in the sense that they have the tools and some understanding of a specific area like addiction to drink and drugs. Those 2 teachers being Sailor Bob Adamson and Paul Hedderman who both are in 'recovery' from substance abuse.

I felt a very great urge to shout about this stuff NA vs TA about 10 years ago when I first encountered it, it was very fresh to me and I could see the distinctions quite clearly, especially around practicing and the need for some kind of thing we call practice whether that be a formal meditation or a way of life containing ethics etc.

The message being at the time that you don't need any practices to awaken, in fact, they are a hindrance so that kinda infuriated me lol. So you have a teacher like Paul H. who always references Ramana Maharshi and the Great Chinese Chan Master Wang Po. Wang Po said "you can't use the Buddha to find the Buddha ", in other words you already are the Buddha but the irony perhaps being that Wang Po had been meditating all his life when he made that statement !? I know many teachers have addressed this issue of practice but my own mind is kinda tired of that debate to be honest, if they need to address the issue it kinda says alot to me about the issue in the first place lol sorry that makes alot of sense, my last statement.

One other issue I have is probably to do with the dynamic of writing which none of us claim to be much good at, Although I have noticed that Shivani Devi is a very good writer and that is always nice to come across. Yes, the writing, the writing, the writing. So you get someone like Iamit whom i hope doesnt mind me using his handle for arguments sake who is speaking writing lucidly and cogently about NT etc. Or better still you get someone like Joe Mc presenting NA ideas. Isn't it marvelous that we can do that here on Sf forum but the problem is I might only last 20 seconds in an interview with a good Zen master, he might even end up kicking the Ego out of me ! ? lol hahahaha so unfortunately the effectiveness of such an encounter between my good self and a good Zen master can not be replicated here on Sf typing school as valuable as the typing is. People try to bring forth such challenges and corrections to each other here all the time but its kinda limited i think.

Lastly I have some reservations about the whole NA phenomenon regarding its socio economic dynamics. I went along for a day to see Mooji. The event was for 3 days, and i calculated the takings for such an event were around 15000- 20,000 sterling at the time. Alot of money for a weekend. Obviously we all live in the real world and we have to live etc. but if those types of sums of money are becoming available to these teachers then it would be nice to know what they are doing with them, building ashrams etc. ? Anyways just something that always kinda bugs me a bit. Thanks blossomingtree for inspiring me to write a few thoughts down. Joe.

Ps. I was just about to meditate when this thought sprung to mind and bugged me to be written down. There was a time when my friend went to see mooji in his flat in Brixton London, I was invited too but couldn't make it. Within the space of a few short months a year or so, there was no longer room at Mooji's place, so the Satsangs were held in halls etc. Mooji has a very big following now i believe, thousands of followers I suspect. Alongside this, there is a Tibetan Buddhist centre I pop along to now and then, in fact im going there tomorrow to help with the lunch. I first attended that centre around 1996 and not much has change in those 20 years or so. The dynamics of the centre which are built around the teacher panchen rimpoche have more or less stayed the same..The same number of guests, same levels of activity etc. It just brings up a few questions in my own mind. Perhaps what is on offer with Mooji is cheap, cheerful and accessible hence the vast numbers or perhaps he is a fully enlightened being radiating shakti to all on sundry. Perhaps panchen rimpoche is a bad teacher lol..There was a line in a song in Paul Weller song, he was in a band called the Jam at the time and it said ..." The public gets what the public wants but i want nothing this society wants, im going underground.." Anyway more food for thought. thanks.

Zen Master : Show me your original face !
NA Student : No, I haven't got one
Zen Master : Yes you have !!!!!!!
NA Student : No I definitely haven't got one !
Zen Master : Bang !!!!
NA Student : Wobbles !

:) /\

A Zen Master doesn't allow/accept intellectual responses, that's part of the test. Finding a real Zen Master is a boon but not impossible, I guess.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Hardly. There are many cult leaders with influence, there are Presidents with influence, there are spiritual leaders who know, and some who don't, some talk, others do not.

Spiritual teachers, where they are benign, have genuine realization, and help their followers know the high spiritual truths -- well, there cannot be enough of them.

BT

My point is, no one cares what he says, only about the influence he has. In the discrediting of what he says there is a resistance to said power of influence, by undermining the knowledge.