If you want to understand the dream analogy...

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by alanantic

I have "woke up" a few times in my life. I saw that the universe was a Dream and I was the Dreamer.

I hear this a lot to be fair, but when I ask the question about their experience and how one derives at such a statement it all goes pear shaped

When I start to ask questions on what is known to be a dream in the first instance one can only refer to a dream of a night times sleep (where one doesn't actually sleep).

So basically one relates to the universe being a dream from a non starter, a red herring, a lie in itself .

I welcome an explanation if you want to talk me/us through it, many have experienced what they are beyond the physical and immediately think that the physical aspects of self must be illusory or not the true self etc etc ... but all one is doing in certain instances is having another self reflection, just like the analogy of the diamond with many facets ...

What can happen is one can experience another facet and say that's real and that isn't, and then see another facet and repeat the process over and over .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 36 EXCERPT:The key point here seems to be the definition of what is "real". If "that which is impermanent isn't the true reality", then certainly dreams or even the waking state are not "real" with that definition..

I think it's inevitable that one refers to what is real or not when one wants to start labeling the world to be a dream or illusory . There's no real difference excuse the pun from comparing something to be real or illusory or dreamy .

There has to be there opposites present .

The fact that some shy away from what is real and yet the dreamy, illusory characters and world concepts roll of their dream like tongues makes no sense to me .

It's avoidance because one has to have a foundation for life and self and in oneness or whatever word suits, self and the world has to reflect each other the same .

This is why it never works to have illusory dream spiritual master speaking the truth because they don't actually exist ... and like what I have repeated many times, a dream character cannot know the truth, awaken to the truth of being in a dream, so this is why foundations of self and the world must be sound .

Not using the real or unreal word doesn't make a foundation any sounder .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

It's amazing how hung up some non-dualists get on the definitions of "real" and "unreal" instead of just accepting what is as the One All-Inclusive Reality.

It's equally amazing that some non dualists get caught up in the dreamy illusory definitions

There are many understandings of self, what you are, realities, and the unfoldment of it all and such likes and some may have a similar experience and conclude the opposites to what transpired .

From my own realisations / experiences all I can conclude is that there is only what you are . That can be of the mind or beyond . One can refer to what you are as many things, all things and no thing ...

But it depends as always in context . It is equally true to say there is self and no self but many will conclude that the self of the mind must be illusory based upon the truth that self can be transcended .

From your quote on the your post to me, it would be hold a similar Brahman is REAL. The Universe is UNREAL. BUT Brahman is the Universe."

But within context you can't have this paradox as a foundation and then no longer refer to what is real or not .

Peeps that proclaim to realise the self or the world at large is illusory or dreamy only see one side of the coin . They don't see that the opposite is also true .

They are not coming from the point of where Brahman is the universe .

Peeps that do, still walk around holes in the ground or run away from a rampant elephant .



x daz x

Originally Posted by alanantic

I saw that the universe was a Dream and I was the Dreamer.

The Dream and the Dreamer are one and the same.

Whatever people happen to be dreaming of, however they might be perceiving the dream at the time - where does the 'source material' that the Dreamer's Dream come from?

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

"Brahman is REAL.
The Universe is UNREAL.
BUT Brahman is the Universe."

Good old differentiated consciousness of the ego.

"What is it then? Even though Reality is beyond Reality and Unreality, it must be admitted to be Reality only. Same thing with Chit and Ananda also. Compare with the term Jnana, Knowledge. Jnana is the state beyond knowledge and ignorance, yet Jnana is not ignorance but knowledge. So
also with Sat-Chit-Ananda."
https://sriramanamaharishi.com/faith...t-chit-ananda/

Much more interesting.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Halloween Jack

Yes. That’s it. That’s what non-duality really points to. This One Source presenting as all that is - as it is.

When this is a present moment realisation - rather than an intellectual understanding - the machinations of the ‘little me’ lose their compulsive grip and life unfolds without drama.

Very very well said. Please post more frequently as I value highly the posts that I have seen from you thus far.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 43 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by God-Like

It's equally amazing that some non dualists get caught up in the dreamy illusory definitions

Peeps that proclaim to realise the self or the world at large is illusory or dreamy only see one side of the coin . They don't see that the opposite is also true .

Peeps that do, still walk around holes in the ground or run away from a rampant elephant .

As usual, you raise some very excellent points and I regret that I can only quote so much in accordance with administrative guidelines.

I absolutely loved the last line that I quoted above from your post: "Peeps that do, still walk around holes in the ground or run away from a rampant elephant ."

That brings to mind a very one-sided "conversation" I was having with a young fellow whom I had just met at the Vedanta Society in NYC years ago. After the service, we were walking outdoors and he was pontificating non-stop about the "dreamy illusory" nature of the manifestation. Suddenly and unexpectedly, he apologetically said that he had to leave and go to his nearby apartment because he REALLY needed to go to the bathroom. I just smiled at him and urged him to continue the conversation since his urge to go to the bathroom was only an "illusion" in accordance with his own words. The look on his face was priceless as he stared at me in stunned silence before laughing and running off to attend to his "illusory" urge.

My sense is that his sense of "illusion" changed radically in that direct experiential moment and that he suddenly saw the opposite "side of the coin", as you aptly put it.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 44 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The Dream and the Dreamer are one and the same.

... which reminds me of an analogous saying attributed to Lord Jesus: "I and the Father are one and the same".
Another parallel wisdom saying is from Buddhism: " "Form is emptiness (śūnyatā), emptiness is form."
Well said !

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 45 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Good old differentiated consciousness of the ego.
https://sriramanamaharishi.com/faith...t-chit-ananda/

Right on target, as usual !

Ramana's "Talks" is one of my favorite wisdom books.

For your information, I have just started to re-read "Truth Revealed", which is a very short original exposition by Ramana which goes straight to the heart of non-duality with absolutely no fluff whatsoever. I started a thread in the non-duality forum on it and post selected passages which particularly command my attention. Check it out. Even better, you might prefer to get the book yourself as it's very short but full of wisdom gems.

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The Dream and the Dreamer are one and the same.

Whatever people happen to be dreaming of, however they might be perceiving the dream at the time - where does the 'source material' that the Dreamer's Dream come from?

Maybe the collective human consciousness? When we're lucid in a dream, we can become conscious as the source material. We have a new level of freedom & ability, just as one does when lucid in a nighttime dream. But, since it's a collective dream, it's difficult to express a will of your own; certainly, if you're unconscious of it. When lucid, there must another level of unconscious co-operation.