Matthew 23:12

[Maisy]

Matthew 23:12

"Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."

I think this has huge really deep hidden meanings.

[Aknaton]

Definitely! In Christianity, if you can't be humble, it's impossible to enter the inner mysteries.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Matthew 23:12

"Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."

I think this has huge really deep hidden meanings.

Maisy,

The deepest inner meanings are uncovered by the preceding 4 verses Matthew 23:8-11. Every time you see the word ‘one’ you are invited to interpret that as Non-duality……one Master, one Father, one Teacher. The simplest definition of Non-duality is simply ‘not two’. Jesus said……”I and the Father are one”. Paul said “I no longer live but Christ lives in me”. Man’s true Self….his truest Self is his ‘Father in Heaven’……is the ‘Christ’. This is our challenge….to realize our oneness. This Self will always find meaning in being a servant and will be exalted because of this……it is done for the maintenance of oneness. Philippians 2:5-8 are our model verses…..”Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature(oneness) God, did not consider equality with God something to not be taken advantage of, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man he humbled himself and became obedient to death. “

[Miss Hepburn]

Wow, Mo ---those verses are powerful! Thank you!.
(I haven't seen them in awhile.)

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Aknaton

Definitely! In Christianity, if you can't be humble, it's impossible to enter the inner mysteries.

True I think. I've done some experiments and think it is key to transcendental experiences of "God." Jesus alludes to it in his teachings and Meister Eckhart for example. I think everything in spirituality revolves around it though it can be described or talked about in a million different ways.

I think one has to find the meaning for themselves as the meaning is a real lived experience and not a belief or an idea. It's more about understanding and direct experience which I think is pre-verbal or pre-words. Existing and acted upon prior to a thought. It's a way to be in the now and a certain chosen relationship with parts of our content.

I think it's more about intuition, (the ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning) than reason or logic or thought or thinking. More about the heart than the head.

John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.

It's amazing how many ways that sentence Jesus said can be interpreted.

But I'd add this from Jesus:

MATTHEW 18:3 AMPC
And (Jesus said), Truly I say to you, unless you repent (change, turn about) and become like little children [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving], you can never enter the kingdom of heaven [at all].

Inferring it is actually impossible to enter the "kingdom of heaven" without the nature and humble and natural loving pure way to be he describes.

Then "kingdom of heaven" can refer to a level of the astral realms we go to after we pass on OR a state of consciousness or way to be we can have in the now.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Molearner

”I and the Father are one”. Paul said “I no longer live but Christ lives in me”. Man’s true Self….his truest Self is his ‘Father in Heaven’……is the ‘Christ’. This is our challenge….to realize our oneness.“

Yes, yes! This is like what I meant when I said it can be talked about (or pointed to or referenced) in a million different ways. It's all pointing to the same thing I think. But "it" is not a description so words can only get one so far. One has to find the "meaning" or "lived experience" for themselves. Find the way "to be."

That theme in the Bible of Jesus saying he does God's will and not his own. One can think of that as these two strong wills right. Mine and God's and Jesus said to follow God's. But there's a different way to think of it.

We have a strong conditioning from living this human life, beliefs, ideas, opinions we cling to etc. If we can be present in the now, let go of all of this conditioning, all of the human and habitual thinking in our head, and just be present and empty (being in the now with our natural state, love-openness (like children to reference Jesus) the nature of pure consciousness itself is us, (it would be all that is left if we drop all else)

I think "pure consciousness" is God in a sense. When we drop our human nature, (being self centered, aggressive, judgmental, big egos, for example) what remains is our true nature which is "pure consciousness" and this pure consciousness has aspects of it's source or "God." Unconditional love and peace for example. Empathy and compassion. Loving kindness (as I think every religion or true spiritual teacher points to this in their own cultural way.)

Our "will" is basically an impulse or source of "doing." Typically the source is our conditioning and ego. If we are present in the now as innocent as children, empty, open, the source of our doing is our true pure loving nature which I believe is sourced from God. So we are then doing God's will and not "our" own. I think "our " there is referring to our human nature and not our heavenly nature.

[Molearner]

Everything that I said before poses a difficult problem for religion. God and Jesus are put on what seems to be a justifiable pedestal. It may appear as unimaginable that we are intended and encouraged to become one with the godhead. In essence we are intimidated to ‘join the team’ feeling unworthy. Now in sports and in music….and anything else….ultimate success is enhanced and made possible by the supporting cast. In regards to religion we need to internalize this understanding to supplement whatever teaching is presented. There is always an individual path within the shared path…….

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Our "will" is basically an impulse or source of "doing." Typically the source is our conditioning and ego. If we are present in the now as innocent as children, empty, open, the source of our doing is our true pure loving nature which I believe is sourced from God. So we are then doing God's will and not "our" own. I think "our " there is referring to our human nature and not our heavenly nature.

Maisy,

All of your post was excellent and insightful. I particularly appreciated this part….the doing that is sourced from God…..perhaps only realized in retrospect but powerful when you do……

[eezi-ulgen]

Excellent thread and posts.

Have a Great day.
Peace

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Everything that I said before poses a difficult problem for religion. In essence we are intimidated to ‘join the team’ feeling unworthy.

I think Jesus had no interest in starting a new religion. He was a Jew and was interested in transforming the consciousness of those around him and to teach about the point of human existence (or Judaism of that time) which is to align ourselves with spirit or our true nature. To "be" good and loving and non-judgmental. To love others as ourselves. To enter the "kingdom of heaven." To live as, and experience the world as, love.

I remember a teaching Krishnamurti was talking about where say somebody made you mad about something. You dislike this other person because they said or did something to you. So say some time goes by and you are somewhere and this person enters the room.

Our normal human way to be is living as the past. So this person walks in and we see them and we immediately feel anger. But then imagine we live in the here and now with no reference to the past. The past does not exist in any real sense anyway. So we smile and say hi to them. We are not holding onto the past, not experiencing the now or them though the past.

Like that famous Ram Das book, "Be Here Now."

“Early in the journey you wonder how long the journey will take and whether you will make it in this lifetime. Later you will see that where you are going is HERE and you will arrive NOW...so you stop asking.”
― Ram Dass, Be Here Now

“And suddenly I realized that he knew everything that was going on in my head, all the time, and that he still loved me. Because who we are is behind all that.”
― Ram Dass, Be Here Now