Doing and Happening

Originally Posted by Iamit

Good lets keep it like that. You insist on misunderstanding so this is my last post to you :)

There is nothing to misunderstand, there is no me to understand anything, there is no post, only the illusion of the post and the poster.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Starman

What exactly is the doer? The more conscious I become of my life source I realize that I am not the doer. All I do is open and close, like breathing in and then letting it out. Nothing can come in unless we invite it in.

The doer are the forces, spirits, etc., that we invite into our lives. For example, a person who is drunk on alcohol; what is the doer in this case; the person or the alcohol? We are as puppets, or servants, to whatever we invite into our lives. We can invite love into our lives and let that be the doer. Some invite hate into their lives and allow that to be the doer.

At our core we are crystal clear transparent beings, but human beings invite things into their lives that have the potential to color and cloud that clarity. Speaking only for myself; happiness comes when I empty myself and just sit with that wide open presence of clarity, a clarity which the human mind might call “nothingness.” When I am not doing anything but being.

True happiness has a presence all its’ own; it is and infectious presence that can bring joy for no reason whatsoever. Happiness is inherent in the fabric of our deeper being, it is our truest nature. Like birds singing. I don’t think we need to do anything to be happy. Happiness often comes to me when I appreciate the simplicity of life.

Nice post/response.

The foundation of the doer / experiencer on the physical/body and mental/mind level is the sense of I/ ego that is physically, mentally and emotionally conditioned/manipulated with the fear of his her conditioned "what IS" and the eternal right here and right now. This fear physically, mentally and emotionally manifests as people's personal negative habits, crutches and etc as a way to escape and/or to deal/cope with his/her " subjective conditioned "what IS" and the eternal right here and right now (these habits and crutches are/create misplaced/imbalanced mental and emotional energy and include but are not limited to drugs, sex (including sexual energy), spirituality, religion etc etc).

A person who has strong and deep mental and emotional conditioning energy thus created and uses habits, crutches and etc to escape, cope and etc his/her conditioned subjective "what IS", he/she will attract more of the same strong and deep mental and emotional conditioning/manipulation "what IS" energy into his/her life. This is the foundation of the law of attraction.

Most guru's, spiritual teachers, authors of books (Like Eckhart Tolle and the author(s) of "the secret" series of books) and etc, never talk about or mention how important of an issue mental and emotional conditioning/manipulation and habits and crutches really IS. I guess they will not sell a lot of books/retreats if they came out and told people just to be consious/aware of their habits, crutches and etc so people will get/move past their (negative) mental and emotional conditioning/manipulation. A person is not able to live in the now and be/think positive, when the now triggers people's subjective "what IS" negative conditioning.

Originally Posted by Starman

All I do is open and close, ...

On the surface of it, that may not sound like doing that would lead to much happening. But if it is doors that one is opening and closing, each leading to a whole different world, then it might seem like one's choice of door is determining everything that happens.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

One is the many and the many is one .

Peeps who learn and adopt a non duality philosophy think that oneness not twoness refers to a one dimensional linear type of understanding .

This is one of the biggest flaws .

People think that there cannot be individuals because there is only one Self .

It isn't ONE Self it is Self that is all there is .

That includes billions of individual expressions of what you are fundamentally that is all there is .

ONENESS is misunderstood .

For there to be a suggestion that there cannot be TWO is misunderstanding what you are fundamentally .

Peeps think that there cannot be TWO because it implies separation, but there cannot be separation from what you are .

There can be both individuality and sameness just as there are different colours of the rainbow while all colours being the same light source .


x daz x

Thanks for posting the above on the SELF/ONENESS daz! It makes perfect sense that the SELF is all there is. Oneness, non-duality or wholeness is comepletly misunderstood and is taken out of context.

Wholeness has no opposites, wholeness only has parts or aspects of itself, which makes it whole. Wholeness is taking Oneness further and deeper, to get the whole entire picture. Wholeness is adding/integrating the oneness of the Self of all conscious living things (including animals and plants) with all physical matter that does not have a self/I am.

I do not think you could have explained the foundation of ONENESS any clearer or better than you did.

The major and important issue is that people use spirituality, including non-duality as a crutch/habit to escape and to cope with their mental and emotional conditioning/negative emotions, and the negative/bad experiences they had in the past.

This is why people dodge answering your questions, when you question their premise and foundation- people think it is much easier to live, escape and cope in lala land with dreams, illusions and delusions than to evolve spiritually/mentally by transcending/working through their (negative) habits, crutches, and negative subconscious emotions, when it is not. This is the major issue here

[Iamit]

It may be that it is simply a matter of different words being preferred to describe the the same state. Some prefer the term Oneness (from the Sansrit Advaita meaning not two) and others the term Self, both used to describe the contingency without distinction or discrimination. Individuality however varies depending on the character/personality (Ego) constructed by Oneness as mind to protect against rejection. This masquerade is an illusion of an individual.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Thanks for posting the above on the SELF/ONENESS daz! It makes perfect sense that the SELF is all there is. Oneness, non-duality or wholeness is comepletly misunderstood and is taken out of context.

You and I seem to see eye to eye on these matters and both have experienced the run around when conversing with non dualists . Oneness as I see it is the most misunderstood concept there is and it creates a knock on effect that creates a foundation of a premise that doesn't actually make any sense at all . My recent conversations proves how futile it is to ask straight forward questions and how difficult it is to get straightforward answers , There is no explanation of the contradictions at all . You see when you have an honest foundation there are always going to be clear cut explanations and answers because one actually lives by their belief because it is integrated within their experience .

Originally Posted by MikeS80

has no opposites, wholeness only has parts or aspects of itself, which makes it whole. Wholeness is taking Oneness further and deeper, to get the whole entire picture. Wholeness is adding/integrating the oneness of the Self of all conscious living things (including animals and plants) with all physical matter that does not have a self/I am.

I do not think you could have explained the foundation of ONENESS any clearer or better than you did.

The major and important issue is that people use spirituality, including non-duality as a crutch/habit to escape and to cope with their mental and emotional conditioning/negative emotions, and the negative/bad experiences they had in the past.

This is why people dodge answering your questions, when you question their premise and foundation- people think it is much easier to live, escape and cope in lala land with dreams, illusions and delusions than to evolve spiritually/mentally by transcending/working through their (negative) habits, crutches, and negative subconscious emotions, when it is not. This is the major issue here

I think it is very simple and straightforward to be honest and I am glad you see the clarity in my words .

What is at the core of all this is that there is awareness of I AM . This is individuality .

There is no awareness of 'I AM all there is' while chatting away on the forums .

Being what you are beyond I AM can be related to Self realisation .. Being the ocean in entirety .. but there is no one there 'being' the ocean in entirety .

This is the birthing of there is no doer because no one is there . There is no 'there' for anyone to be lol .

Now what peeps do is relate I AM awareness to being illusory simply because there is no one there while being the ocean in entirety . Simply being what you are .

There is no realisation of Self that brings to the fore a conceptual foundation of the world being illusory and I AM individuality is merely a dream character .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Starman

What exactly is the doer? The more conscious I become of my life source I realize that I am not the doer. All I do is open and close, like breathing in and then letting it out. Nothing can come in unless we invite it in.

The doer are the forces, spirits, etc., that we invite into our lives. For example, a person who is drunk on alcohol; what is the doer in this case; the person or the alcohol? We are as puppets, or servants, to whatever we invite into our lives. We can invite love into our lives and let that be the doer. Some invite hate into their lives and allow that to be the doer.

At our core we are crystal clear transparent beings, but human beings invite things into their lives that have the potential to color and cloud that clarity. Speaking only for myself; happiness comes when I empty myself and just sit with that wide open presence of clarity, a clarity which the human mind might call “nothingness.” When I am not doing anything but being.

True happiness has a presence all its’ own; it is and infectious presence that can bring joy for no reason whatsoever. Happiness is inherent in the fabric of our deeper being, it is our truest nature. Like birds singing. I don’t think we need to do anything to be happy. Happiness often comes to me when I appreciate the simplicity of life.

There is also the opposite in effect .

The more that one knows oneself and becomes aware and conscious of oneself the more one knows that there is only the doer present and I AM the doer .

IF there is no separation from I AM and the whole then there can only be the I AM the doer . The whole or the one or God cannot be the doer while I AM is not the doer .

There are obviously more layers to all this because one might simply believe in one aspect of the personhood and believe that Mr Jones is the sole doer of all things created and lived . It is true however on some level because the personhood is not separate from the wholeness of the individual .

Peeps say that we create our own individual reality so there has to be a doer present in the creation of the doing .

Again this boils down to whether peeps take the illusory dream stance or not .

By taking this particular stance it reflects upon everything else ... and it divides rather than integrates which ironically isn't what Oneness and non duality is all about .


x daz x

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

You and I seem to see eye to eye on these matters and both have experienced the run around when conversing with non dualists . Oneness as I see it is the most misunderstood concept there is and it creates a knock on effect that creates a foundation of a premise that doesn't actually make any sense at all . My recent conversations proves how futile it is to ask straight forward questions and how difficult it is to get straightforward answers , There is no explanation of the contradictions at all . You see when you have an honest foundation there are always going to be clear cut explanations and answers because one actually lives by their belief because it is integrated within their experience .



I think it is very simple and straightforward to be honest and I am glad you see the clarity in my words .

What is at the core of all this is that there is awareness of I AM . This is individuality .

There is no awareness of 'I AM all there is' while chatting away on the forums .

Being what you are beyond I AM can be related to Self realisation .. Being the ocean in entirety .. but there is no one there 'being' the ocean in entirety .

This is the birthing of there is no doer because no one is there . There is no 'there' for anyone to be lol .

Now what peeps do is relate I AM awareness to being illusory simply because there is no one there while being the ocean in entirety . Simply being what you are .

There is no realisation of Self that brings to the fore a conceptual foundation of the world being illusory and I AM individuality is merely a dream character .


x daz x

There can be no awareness of 'I AM all there is' while chatting on this forum website because their foundation is their belief that their individual thinking I am and their individual heart feeling of I AM is an illusion/dream/not real. Not to mention the premise of I AM all there is, is not taught at all to the masses.

It all comes down to non-dualists taking the duality/non-duality concept way too literally and seriously inorder to feel good and to escape and to cope with their subjective illusionary dreamy and contradictory reality, what is, and negative emotions/feelings that is inside an illusion/dream.

I see that you are trying to fight one extreme with another extreme, which also makes sense to me and you doing so may help someone in the "future", so you doing so, is not entirely a lost cause.

This all, explaines, why spiritual people and spiritual books, which includes non-dualists use words like illusion, unreal/not real when there are much better and accurate words they can and should use. Spirituality to these people on an unconscious level, is an escape and coping mechanism, it is clear that spirituality is not about truth to these people.

Likewise, I am convinced that some, if not most or all "enlightened" people use the word enlightenment to give people the impression that he/she knows the truth by being conscious/aware, when he/she is not. It is all a spiritual fraud and a sham just to make people feel good, escape, deny, and ignore the truth about themselves and about life/the universe. The truth is simple and does not sell a lot of books, retreats and memberships.

The above is also the reason why spiritual people turn consciousness into an end all-be all to spiritual growth and relate consciousness to god and thus to enlightenment. It is nothing but more and more subconscious mental and emotional conditioning/programming.

Consciousness is a divine instrument or tool that allows us to be aware of and work our way through our subconscious mental and emotional conditioning/programming. I wonder why there is no or very little holy spiritual books, scriptures, gurus, spiritual teachers etc that teach this most important lesson.

It has been on my mind the last couple of days that I could have been given the run around on this forum by a narcisist who used/uses spirituality/non-duality to coverup his narcissism.

I am not attacking a particular person in this post, it is just good to talk about these things to get this information and wisdom physically out there in the universe.

[zorkchop]

Clearly … one of the greatest benefits of this entire duality / non-duality scenario is to portray the mind as the enslaving, constraining, obsessive facet that it *can* be … but certainly does not have to be. I’ve offered a number of posts in the last year or more that certainly sound negative towards the mind … but in reality I know that is *not* true. Mind is *the* most powerful tool given to Soul to interact with the psychic worlds around It as It travels Its many lifetimes in the educational cycles. Without the mind … the psychic world would not exist.

Mind . . . disciplined by the individual … is a fabulous tool. The manifesting abilities both inward and outward are bar none. But the mind … undisciplined … running wild in its playground … can and will destroy the individual as quickly as most anything else … but more often in a slow, senseless, confounding way.

The mind can be as addictive as any substance abuse. It will hold to its beliefs even to the death of the individual. Numerous people can offer insight and assistance to the troubled individual but it will rarely be accepted … or even listened to. Think about the justifications, rationalizations, and excuses an individual truly addicted to hard drugs, or alcohol, or compulsive behavior gives to those about him or her. Do those excuses and demands sound any different from those often in this board … and certainly … elsewhere in the world?

Appropriately … this is all part of the Path. VERY few can see outside of and beyond their own state of consciousness … so … it is only those around the individual that can see the destructive patterns.

People . . . be *very* careful about what you instill in your own mind … the everyday perceptions you view from. Try to keep an open mind … heavily consider the expansive, broadening view on most anything for at least a trial run … if the belief constricts, limits, or leads to short-sightedness … consider ways to open the vision. The Path leads back to the central Whole … and *not* the the restrictive parts.

Minds automatic response is to analyze and then protect. In many ways . . . that is of benefit … as it can keep one from running into a brick wall while driving ones car.

But as can be seen throughout this theme … mind can also lead the individual to be totally … and proudly … blind.

The difficulty with the entire duality / non-duality scenario is that the used definitions are not accurate. The scenario has almost nothing to do with “separation” in any way … but that is the premise discussed … and what possible conclusions can be attained when the entire premise is misunderstood.

The fact that this post will almost entirely be overlooked and dismissed is *not* to the benefit of the sincere student on the Path.

Be attentive … and be aware.

[Iamit]

In your self enquiry practise you may find conditioning to be corrected. This is not an easy task as it is often concealed/repressed. Fortuanately there are clues which reveal the nature of such conditioning. For example that which is condemned in others is often what one has been conditioned to believe is unacceptable in Oneself, and one may find oneself in a sort of club or gang with others for support and security in this projection.

This is often seen in the school playground:). If you are attentive and aware and using this clue you may identify this projection in yourself and correct it:) Good luck with that difficult undertaking which fits nicely with the self enquiry you advocate.