Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Christians seem to think that Jesus took the punishment for sinners.

IOW, Christians see Jesus as asking Christians to abdicate their responsibility for their own sins and punishments.

If humans asked that, it would be considered quite immoral and unjust. All courts try hard to punish the guilty and not the innocent.

These quotes are what I think Jesus would have taught on this issue, him being a Jew and a Rabbi.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments, and Christians are doing just that in trying to use Jesus as their scapegoat.

Regards
DL

[theophilus]

Jesus was the only innocent person who ever lived. He chose to bear the punishment we deserve because that is the only way we can be forgiven. The Bible verses you quoted show that it is impossible for someone who is a sinner to atone for another's sin because he has sins of his own that he must pay for.

Jesus was not just human but was also God. Because of his humanity and his innocence his death could be accepted as a substitute for our sins. Because he was also God his death was enough to atone for the sins of all of us.

[ThatMan]

The thing is that most people do not understand that when we do something bad, our action is like a wave that not only affects us but it also affects many other.

It is the same thing for when we do something good, we can see reflections everywhere around us in the people we know but it can also go even beyond our close ones, it's a wave into the eternal.

So when you do something bad, you not only do it to yourself, you do it to the whole world and ultimately against the very One who made all things.

Open the door to someone and you'll make that person's day a lot more better, be rude with someone and you'll add one more brick on the weight carried by that person on his/her own shoulders, this small brick can be the brick that could lead to many other bricks added on the shoulders of many other people.

Are you able to atone for all the "negative" waves you have sent into the world? This waves go into eternity. I know that I am not, the damage is done, no matter how much good you do to replace the bad, you can never replace the bad, it will always be part of history and ultimately, you have to pay for what you have done because it was you who started the fire.

This is a universal law, it's not that God said one day, let's start punishing people for their bad deeds, this has always been and it will always be, it's the nature of the One who made all things and only the One who made all things has the power to pay this debt, this is what Christ has done, He has become human so that we can become like Him.

More than 2000 thousands years have passed from the moment Christ walked the Earth and look, the waves of His actions are still flowing all over the Earth, you see, it goes on and and on into eternity...

[Morpheus]

Leviticus chapter 16 is where the word "Scapegoat"comes from.
(But you left that out.)

As well, the first video you posted is about the last judgement on the Egyptians, which were enacted when they would not liberate the Jews.

You do not know your Bible. You think you do.
"Disaffected", S.S.

S.S. I like how you talk about Christianity as a whole it shows your troubles.
If you ever receive the Love of God or Christ via The Holy Spirit you would understand.

Of course innocent are not to pay for the guilty.
Innocent do sacrifice all the time for those they Love.

The woman caught in adultery.(John 8: 1 thru 11)
Jesus showed Mercy.

Then there are writings of Paul. 1 Cor. Ch. 1: 20 thru 31

20Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29so that no man may boast before God. 30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”

S.S.
If you don't know or understand, why kick against the prick?
You'll just hurt your foot kicking against the unmovable.
Or are you an opportunist, looking to cull out the week?
Wolf in Sheep clothing maybe?

Originally Posted by theophilus

Jesus was the only innocent person who ever lived. He chose to bear the punishment we deserve because that is the only way we can be forgiven. The Bible verses you quoted show that it is impossible for someone who is a sinner to atone for another's sin because he has sins of his own that he must pay for.

Jesus was not just human but was also God. Because of his humanity and his innocence his death could be accepted as a substitute for our sins. Because he was also God his death was enough to atone for the sins of all of us.

So god can die. Interesting.

It it really a sacrifice if the sacrifice does not stay dead, or is it a lie?

You say god had no other way. Why are you restricting god and where in scriptures does it say he cannot forgive us without having his own child murdered?

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by ThatMan

The thing is that most people do not understand that when we do something bad, our action is like a wave that not only affects us but it also affects many other.

It is the same thing for when we do something good, we can see reflections everywhere around us in the people we know but it can also go even beyond our close ones, it's a wave into the eternal.

So when you do something bad, you not only do it to yourself, you do it to the whole world and ultimately against the very One who made all things.

Open the door to someone and you'll make that person's day a lot more better, be rude with someone and you'll add one more brick on the weight carried by that person on his/her own shoulders, this small brick can be the brick that could lead to many other bricks added on the shoulders of many other people.

Are you able to atone for all the "negative" waves you have sent into the world? This waves go into eternity. I know that I am not, the damage is done, no matter how much good you do to replace the bad, you can never replace the bad, it will always be part of history and ultimately, you have to pay for what you have done because it was you who started the fire.

This is a universal law, it's not that God said one day, let's start punishing people for their bad deeds, this has always been and it will always be, it's the nature of the One who made all things and only the One who made all things has the power to pay this debt, this is what Christ has done, He has become human so that we can become like Him.

More than 2000 thousands years have passed from the moment Christ walked the Earth and look, the waves of His actions are still flowing all over the Earth, you see, it goes on and and on into eternity...

I see that you were very careful to ignore the immorality of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty as justice.

Typical Christian moral coward. Get behind me, Satan.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Leviticus chapter 16 is where the word "Scapegoat"comes from.
(But you left that out.)

As well, the first video you posted is about the last judgement on the Egyptians, which were enacted when they would not liberate the Jews.

You do not know your Bible. You think you do.
"Disaffected", S.S.

What vid?

Are you talking of where Pharaoh's heart was soft and he was to let the Jews go, until Yahweh hardened his heart and changed his mind?

If so, that shows your god as quite the murderous prick. No?

You have left a lot out yourself, but such cheap gratuitous insult is to be expected from the religious.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

S.S. I like how you talk about Christianity as a whole it shows your troubles.
If you ever receive the Love of God or Christ via The Holy Spirit you would understand.

Of course innocent are not to pay for the guilty.
Innocent do sacrifice all the time for those they Love.

The woman caught in adultery.(John 8: 1 thru 11)
Jesus showed Mercy.

Then there are writings of Paul. 1 Cor. Ch. 1: 20 thru 31


S.S.
If you don't know or understand, why kick against the prick?
You'll just hurt your foot kicking against the unmovable.
Or are you an opportunist, looking to cull out the week?
Wolf in Sheep clothing maybe?

No. I am more advanced morally than you.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

No. I am more advanced morally than you.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.
Please get back to me with your conclusion.
Regards
DL

You probably are morally more advanced then me, I am happy for you.
I bet you can spell better and speak better too.
I am not sure what any of that has to do with anything.
What do you care how anyone sees the Blood of Christ?

At least you narrowed it down to homophobic and misogynous mainstream religion instead of Christianity.

I have no need to draw any conclusions. Life is always in flux.