Belly Full of Rivers of Living Water

[Maisy]

I personally think our sense of self has nothing to do with ego. Ego to me is more about false associations, temporary associations, from this one life only. Negative habits, negative thinking patterns and behaviors, negative self centered isolating and conflict causing thoughts and behaviors, attitudes etc. (me verses or judging them)

I think sense of self is innate and natural to "being" and can only come from our true self. Our true self to me, our soul, (I am soul/spirit) is an element of conscious awareness itself, which I believe continues on after it leaves this temporary body, ego, and identity and associations. True self to me is the only thing in us that is aware and conscious, it is literally us. Ego to me, as a "thing" we associate with and identify with in various ways, has no awareness or consciousness in itself. So to me, it is in no way self. There are times during the day we are not even thinking or associating with our opinions and self centered subjective beliefs, and yet we are still there fully aware and conscious and ourselves. When we are simply listening openly to another for example with love and total acceptance. We are better to me, not worse, more ourselves not less, when ego is not being asserted and projected.

Everyone obviously attaches different definitions to the word ego and thinks of it being different things, and some do think of "it" as themselves. I myself define it as what is not me. More like a collection of things we commonly think of as ourselves which are not ourselves. Thought based false assumptions. Isolating, conflict causing, patterns of thought and belief. (me verses them) Really even (I am different than them) Conflict creating, perceiving. experiencing.

I think a sense of self, which manifests as projections from that core, things we think say and do for example, can have two sources. Either what I call ego, habitual conditioned self centered thought, or our true nature which is divine love and has it's source in God. Always harmonious, never angry or self centered, is more about connection and not conflict, the whole and not the part, about empathy, compassion, and understanding. Which I believe are aspects of our true self or "God."

I think we are without ego identification all the time, whenever we are operating out of love and harmonious being. But then when we are "self enclosed", operating out of selfishness, self centeredness, smallness, fear and anger etc we are then experiencing and perceiving as ego which I define as the false temporary self.

I think an ego can be beneficial in this physical life in the sense of self centered gathering or acquiring money and relationships and pleasures of all kinds. And while all of this can make material and physical life more about "me" and not the other, in the end, it is not beneficial to our future non-physical life out of the body and in the astral world or "heaven."

[sky]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

If we had no sense of self then surely we would not be a human being. Perhaps control of the ego is what is needed.

I wonder how can we love our neighbour as 'our self' if we had no sense of self/identity/ego ?
Equinimity imo is the way but we need a sense of self/ego to be equanimous....
Imo only.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Sky,

Ultimately our survival in this world is made possible by the demise of others.

Not necessarily, what about give and take....

[Maisy]

Matthew 7:13-15 with two words changed.

13 There are two paths before you; you may take only one path. One doorway is narrow. And one door is wide. Go through the narrow door. For the wide door leads to a wide path, and the wide path is broad; the wide, broad path is easy, and the wide, broad, easy path has many, many people on it; but the wide, broad, easy, crowded path leads to delusion and conflict. 14 Now then that narrow door leads to a narrow road that in turn leads to union with God or our source and love. It is hard to find that road. Not many people manage it.

Delusion and conflict instead of word "death"
Union with God or our source and love expanding on the word "life."

I think Jesus and the writers of the books in the bible often used the words "death" and "life" as metaphors for states of consciousness or being.

John 14:6
New International Version
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Romans 6:23
English Standard Version
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Everyone dies of course so to me someone saying this way of being leads to life and the other way of being leads to death is not talking about the end of this life. As everyone leaves it at some point. I myself think it is more about self realization. Union with God, our source, as opposed to pushing God and that connection away. "Life or death" as metaphors for connecting with our true selves or our source or not.

Revelation 21:4
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more,

Perhaps no more death means no more returning to physical life. Maybe Matthew saying the wide door leads to death means a return to a physical life or incarnation and not a future as spirit forever in the spirit heavenly realms.

[Maisy]

I don't think our sense of self is dependent on anything. To me, it is eternal and everlasting. Here now and here after we leave this body. Babies have a sense of self even in the womb I think. Before they have learned a language or had any earthly experiences at all. Before they have one opinion or belief.

Like take a rock star or celebrity full of self importance and vanity. Many think they are superior to everyone else. They had more of an authentic sense of self in my opinion when they were children, before they became rich and popular and powerful and vain. Their sense of self as vain self centered important "stars" is false in my view. True self more associated and wrapped up with ego. Their sense of self is coming more from ego than from their true selves or core of being. But it is a sense of self either way. We can never not have a sense of self as we are awareness itself in my view.

I think self awareness we have always and forever. A sense of self. But we can associate that innate eternal "being" with anything. Our expensive cars and fame and self importance for example. We can think, this is who and what I am. Of course we leave this body at some point with nothing except our state of consciousness at some point so associating our sense of self with this life's temporary identifications and possessions was pointless and delusional in the big picture.

I'm a Christian, I'm a Buddhist, I'm a farmer, I'm an engineer, I'm a warrior, I'm a mother, a sister,... This is all temporary stuff. But to some it is their whole identity. I'm male or female etc. We will all leave these identities behind at some point. No one has to be "something" or "somebody" we can just be. Just be love hopefully and peace.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

And perhaps the raw material for our True Self is the Spirit……

The raw material is the Ego, use the Ego as a tool to transform the Ego.
Imo....

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think we are without ego identification all the time, whenever we are operating out of love and harmonious being. But then when we are "self enclosed", operating out of selfishness, self centeredness, smallness, fear and anger etc we are then experiencing and perceiving as ego which I define as the false temporary self.

."

Maisy,

Thankfully this is true…..we are not trapped by our ego all the time. The ego manifests itself especially in moments of judgement. Either the fear of being judged or the compulsion to judge others. “A man’s best friend is his dog”….nobody makes sure that they have their makeup on before they play with their dog. This absence of the ego occurs in moments of spontaneity……the feeling one has when first seeing a baby….no fear of the baby….no embarrassment of your own joyful reaction. True heroes react immediately….not after moments of careful consideration. When we see the beauties of nature is there any conscious thought of how we should react ? All of these are times when our ego is nonexistent. These are learning opportunities……

[Aknaton]

Originally Posted by Molearner

And perhaps the raw material for our True Self is the Spirit……

Hmmm... Very interesting. I'm literally falling in love with what you just wrote!

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Thankfully this is true…..we are not trapped by our ego all the time. The ego manifests itself especially in moments of judgement.

I think we are just awareness, that which perceives. But then of course we are currently merged with a physical body which leads to all kinds of identifications where we come to believe we are the body and the "person" this body has become. All of it's story, experiences, beliefs, within the larger society, time and place etc. Relationships "family" friends and so on.

So I think it's like just awareness and perception that is all wrapped up perceiving through these mental contructs of this temporary body and person. As soon as we wake up in the morning we habitually place our attention fully on our thoughts, the "talking" in our heads which is based on our temporary story and identity.

"Spiritualty" may be a matter of how "attached" we are to these temporary things. I think because if our attention or focus is all wrapped up with them, it blocks a connection to our true nature of universal harmonious unselfish love.

Somebody posted something about not posting beliefs as facts but that's related to how identified we are with our beliefs. For example, this is how a belief can be stated.

#1. The earth is flat.
#2. I think the earth is flat.
#3. I think the earth is flat today but I could change my mind.
#4. I have no way to know if the earth is flat of not.
(If I could fly an airplane I could find out for myself.)

From "closed minded" to open minded.

Say a thought appears to us like "I'm bored."

#1. The person immediately "feels" the discomfort and agitation acceptance of such a thought brings.

#2. The person does not accept any reality of that thought. Dismisses it as non-sense. An untrue and pointless mental interpretation and fabrication in the now by the mind or thought stream.

I think if someone could take their attention totally and fully off thought and mind at will, whenever they wanted, they would find the "kingdom of heaven." (which to me would be union with God or our source or union with our true nature)

Matthew 25:34 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
34 Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Originally Posted by Maisy

Delusion and conflict instead of word "death"
Union with God or our source and love expanding on the word "life."

I think Jesus and the writers of the books in the bible often used the words "death" and "life" as metaphors for states of consciousness or being. .

Maisy,

With those few words I can see hope for the future. It is exciting to see those that seek to interpret the Bible rather than to rely on the literal…..