Philosophical fundamentals; the important ideas.

[cathutch]

Originally Posted by Gem

.... the mind has make distinctions and compare the extremities, but when we consider this to be a representation, we can say it represents a 'simultaneous state' (which is merely portrayed by contrast).

It then becomes one state of being... which means that considering nothing and something to be comparable apart from the representation is fundamentally erroneous, or rather, superfluous.

It's superfluous only because our minds require a set of distinctions in order to formalise any perception, and the mind can not formalise anything beyond that limitation, which doesn't rule out a formless perception (or perception without assigned meaning), but said perception would necessarily be inexplicable.

Well said and clearly stated; and as usual, a good line of inquiry and reasoning for others like me. Thanks.

So the 'simultaneous state' seems to be the essence of part of the manifested (fluctuations) and the 'differentiated state' its actual substance (fluctuations + energy). The mind perceives only the substance; the matter created out of distinctions.
The essential driver of matter (energy) is on & off (the fluctuations of nothing & something), and that "duality" produces duality as well(Yin/Yang, as above so below, darkness and light, good and bad... etc.)

Yet, the question remains: "what is the cause behind that "on & off" (something & nothing) - and what are its qualities, properties & functions?". It seems to me that "on & off" is just an attribute of the unmanifested, among many others (the attibute of an observer?). And, in that case, it would be, as you rightly said before, superfluous to try to know it; for it would be unexplainable; like someone trying to describe fire when he only sees smoke. He would need at least to get rid of most of the smoke, if ever the fire was to be seen behind - Haha!

Cordially.

[Ray-O-Light]

Good point. How can one expect to KNOW the unKnowable....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ray-O-Light

Good point. How can one expect to KNOW the unKnowable....

Taoist philosophy approaches the contrasting principle of the mind, and refers to the 'Tao that can't be named'.

The first chapter (and second) of the Tao Te Ching, deals with the contrasts of meaning (naming) and the unnamable.

http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm

The True Cause of Reality is the Intersection of Dimensions caused by Proximity through Attraction of Differential Charges... Philosophically, there is the Equivalent of the Boy with a chocolate bar "Accidentally" bumping into a Girl with an open jar of peanut butter... Promising that it will be Awesome to Get Together! We see this in Galactic Collisions... an Explosion of New Possibilities that were not available before... beyond just the chocolate & peanut butter... Two different things through Attraction & Interaction Create Something New... As far as knowing the unknowable... The argument is an exclusion of infinite possibility & relies on the possibility that we can actually be "Only One"... I submit that , obviously, We Cannot be One... We are Many... connected & existing & dependent... We is Inclusive to Infinite Possibilities & therefore Access to Infinite Knowledge is Available.

[wstein]

I belonged to a couple of philosophy discussion groups. One of the topics was "What is the Purpose of Philosophy?" which is tied to the question to the definition of "What is Philosophy?". Without having answers to those questions, one can not say whether or not something is 'important' or 'off track'. With a range of academics to metaphysicians in the group, there was no consensus on either of these questions. My observation is that most formal philosophy studies are far more concerned about philosophers than philosophy itself. Seems like philosophy starts off track and never gets on it.

P.S. my further observation is that philosophers never actually do anything other than spout ideas. Sadly, for the most part they don't even try to listen, share ideas, or come to a consensus.

[cathutch]

Originally Posted by Ray-O-Light

How can one expect to KNOW the unKnowable....

That's a bit generic.
It encompasses a very broad and indefinite idea, that is not yet concretized.
Sounds a bit like a religious (or/and "sectarian") belief that sounds nicely enigmatic, and in which some confidence is placed. Some kind of trivial intuition (from the unobvious collective consciousness/Notion) elevated to the level of a profound mystery.
This is the road paved of symbols, and as George Carlin once said, "I leave symbols to the symbol minded". This is also the road paved with thraldom and entanglement.

What I mean is that saying "How can one expect to KNOW the unKnowable" does not help us much, as far as knowing "How to reach this unknownable?".

Stopping short at knowing the knowable is not just nescient but insufficient. Knowing the knowable in the mere context of the knowable is pure delusion. The knowledge of the incidental dualism (as reality/world) generated by the convergence of fluctuations (dualistic themselves) with enegy/matter, is relevant only so far as knowing the nature of reality per se; and pertinently how this reality as nature/world, fits in the big picture.

Philosophically speaking (philosophy means "love for Wisdom,") the question is how is this "nature of reality". Is it good? How good? Is it bad? how bad? If I remain in it, what can I expect? Can I escape from it? If so, what are the means of doing so? How can I reach then the unknowable?

Cordially.

[r6r6]

Occupied space has a complementary Shape/Pattern/Geometry etc.....

I think--- metaphysical-1 access to concepts ---about a something--- ex nervous system --via a nervous system-- see brain/biological ---ergo I am existent individualistic entity, that,

contemplate/ponders-- metaphysical-1 --- the larger, finite occupied space, integral whole-- Universe --- and,

the macro-micro-infinite, non-occupied space, as a non-integral whole, and

any associations to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect concepts ex absolute and relative truths or non-truths.

"U"niverse > Universe > universe's---Them-Us-We-You-Me etc......

123, ABC, thats how easy "U"niverse can be.

( X ) + ( X ) or ( y ) = most complex biological/soul existence of Universe, that we know of.

1 + 1 = 4 in synergetic scenarios i.e. the whole is greater than sum of its parts, considered seperately.

Egg inversion is a genetically causal resultant of spermoza release of genetic material within the egg ergo let the ecto-meso-endo synergetic process begin, and where it ends, well, knowbody knows.

We can and do speculate, based on our experiential observations and resultant imagination-- ( ( * ? * ) ) ---.

r6

[333xforever]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Occupied space has a complementary Shape/Pattern/Geometry etc.....

I think--- metaphysical-1 access to concepts ---about a something--- ex nervous system --via a nervous system-- see brain/biological ---ergo I am existent individualistic entity, that,

contemplate/ponders-- metaphysical-1 --- the larger, finite occupied space, integral whole-- Universe --- and,

the macro-micro-infinite, non-occupied space, as a non-integral whole, and

any associations to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect concepts ex absolute and relative truths or non-truths.

"U"niverse > Universe > universe's---Them-Us-We-You-Me etc......

123, ABC, thats how easy "U"niverse can be.

( X ) + ( X ) or ( y ) = most complex biological/soul existence of Universe, that we know of.

1 + 1 = 4 in synergetic scenarios i.e. the whole is greater than sum of its parts, considered seperately.

Egg inversion is a genetically causal resultant of spermoza release of genetic material within the egg ergo let the ecto-meso-endo synergetic process begin, and where it ends, well, knowbody knows.

We can and do speculate, based on our experiential observations and resultant imagination-- ( ( * ? * ) ) ---.

r6

This is a great example of pure nonsense in relation to philosophy. One could argue his idea is an absolute thought, however it has no purpose and meaning.

[r6r6]

It is so sad to witness complex human inteligence succumb mental blockage to some of the most common everyday simple concepts. Ex occupied and non-occupied space.

The man who helped Steve Jobs invent the mouse, also invented signs for public bathrooms that state occupied when someone is in the bathroom space or unoccupied or not occuppied or non-occupied when the bathroom space is not occupied.

I think, i.e. thinking is associated with metaphysical-1 mind/intelligence yet a mental blockage again is thrown in the way of grasping simple and commonly understood ideas.

I think, to ponder, to contemplate, are synonyms for similar accessing of mind/intelligence ergo concepts, except for those who for whatever reason, eschew rational, logical thougths and put in place mental blockages to the most simple of concepts.

Macro-micro infinite is more difficult, yet these days definitions for words, prefixes, suffixe etc...are just one click away, yet, mental blockages are putinto place to obscuer truth and/or are commonly used by humans to avoid truth. Sad :--(

"U"niverse is not difficult yet for some humans, to use parenthesis or a capital letter is enough to throw them into a mental blockage state of mind( metaphysical-1 ).

123, ABC is beginning of a song, yet so many have never heard of M Jackson and the Jackson-5 ormay even refuse to acknowledge the existence of some humans and their abilities.

Biological/soul uses a slash mark and color to represent a synonym-like analogus-type set of words, yet some humans cannot handle/integrate any changes in their beyond their everyday norm. A severe degree of this is seen with some humans who have autism and cannot handle eye or verbal connnections with other humans, so they keep a visual and mental blockages in place whenever they can do so. Sad :--(

1+1 = 4 is simple fact of geometry, humans if not evolution in general and specifically.

Egg inversion etc... is more well documented facts/truths that cause some humans to again, close off their mental abilities to access mind/intellect and the many truths of Universe. Sad :--(

Speculate, ponder, imagine, contemplate etc...type mental play just turns some humans into a boiling over, metabolic pool of negativity. Sad :--(

Go figure?.....and get back to me with your results

r6

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Occupied space has a complementary Shape/Pattern/Geometry etc.....
I think--- metaphysical-1 access to concepts ---about a something--- ex nervous system --via a nervous system-- see brain/biological ---ergo I am existent individualistic entity, that,
contemplate/ponders-- metaphysical-1 --- the larger, finite occupied space, integral whole-- Universe --- and,
the macro-micro-infinite, non-occupied space, as a non-integral whole, and
any associations to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect concepts ex absolute and relative truths or non-truths.
"U"niverse > Universe > universe's---Them-Us-We-You-Me etc......
123, ABC, thats how easy "U"niverse can be.
( X ) + ( X ) or ( y ) = most complex biological/soul existence of Universe, that we know of.
1 + 1 = 4 in synergetic scenarios i.e. the whole is greater than sum of its parts, considered seperately.
Egg inversion is a genetically causal resultant of spermoza release of genetic material within the egg ergo let the ecto-meso-endo synergetic process begin, and where it ends, well, knowbody knows.
We can and do speculate, based on our experiential observations and resultant imagination-- ( ( * ? * ) ) ---.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

It is so sad to witness complex human inteligence succumb mental blockage to some of the most common everyday simple concepts. Ex occupied and non-occupied space.

The man who helped Steve Jobs invent the mouse, also invented signs for public bathrooms that state occupied when someone is in the bathroom space or unoccupied or not occuppied or non-occupied when the bathroom space is not occupied.

I think, i.e. thinking is associated with metaphysical-1 mind/intelligence yet a mental blockage again is thrown in the way of grasping simple and commonly understood ideas.

I think you mistake your ineffective communication style for other people's mental blockages.

I think, to ponder, to contemplate, are synonyms for similar accessing of mind/intelligence ergo concepts, except for those who for whatever reason, eschew rational, logical thougths and put in place mental blockages to the most simple of concepts.

It's irrational to assume that others are flawed when they don't understand. It would be more productive to frame your concept in a way that is more easily comprehended.

Macro-micro infinite is more difficult, yet these days definitions for words, prefixes, suffixe etc...are just one click away, yet, mental blockages are putinto place to obscuer truth and/or are commonly used by humans to avoid truth. Sad :--(

It's simply untrue that you use dictionary (or philosophical or mathematical or physics) definitions.

"U"niverse is not difficult yet for some humans, to use parenthesis or a capital letter is enough to throw them into a mental blockage state of mind( metaphysical-1 ).

It's unreasonable to expect people to comprehend invented terms with arbitrarily assigned meanings.

123, ABC is beginning of a song, yet so many have never heard of M Jackson and the Jackson-5 ormay even refuse to acknowledge the existence of some humans and their abilities.

Biological/soul uses a slash mark and color to represent a synonym-like analogus-type set of words, yet some humans cannot handle/integrate any changes in their beyond their everyday norm. A severe degree of this is seen with some humans who have autism and cannot handle eye or verbal connnections with other humans, so they keep a visual and mental blockages in place whenever they can do so. Sad :--(

The contradiction is, in the first part of this post, you said it's easy to refer to a dictionary to find definitions, but here above you say your terms are beyond people's everyday norm.

1+1 = 4 is simple fact of geometry, humans if not evolution in general and specifically.

I've never come across that 'fact'. You'd have to provide a proof.

Egg inversion etc... is more well documented facts/truths that cause some humans to again, close off their mental abilities to access mind/intellect and the many truths of Universe. Sad :--(

OK, blame other people if you must, but it's not reasonable to expect people to understand the meaning of capitalised and colour-coded words.

Speculate, ponder, imagine, contemplate etc...type mental play just turns some humans into a boiling over, metabolic pool of negativity. Sad :--(

Go figure?.....and get back to me with your results

r6

OK, I guess you'll see it a a fault in others, but it's not reasonable in light of your unusual communication style.