Life support system

Originally Posted by psychoslice

No it doesn't feel silly at the time, but after the dust has settled you can feel silly, I know that I felt stupid after trying to keep my mother alive, when she was choking to death, which I found out later was part of the dieing prosses. I kept the nurse sucking out fluid which only made her last longer in the dieing prosses. If I knew what was happening I would have just let her die, but no one told me as this was happening, so yea, stupid doctors also.

My wife has worked in nursing homes in the past and would occasionally walk-in on a resident who was in the final stages of transition. They would be chain-stoking and clearly at the last moments. If they were a "do not resuscitate" patient, she would quietly back-out of the room and allow them the privacy to gently pass on their own....

Death is not a bad thing.... it's not only "not" an option, it's required... and the person who passes-on is not feeling what we feel, they're welcomed in such a way that's quite warm and supportive. So for us to feel guilty is a game that we play... it's not at all relevant to what just occurred...

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by StephenK

My wife has worked in nursing homes in the past and would occasionally walk-in on a resident who was in the final stages of transition. They would be chain-stoking and clearly at the last moments. If they were a "do not resuscitate" patient, she would quietly back-out of the room and allow them the privacy to gently pass on their own....

Death is not a bad thing.... it's not only "not" an option, it's required... and the person who passes-on is not feeling what we feel, they're welcomed in such a way that's quite warm and supportive. So for us to feel guilty is a game that we play... it's not at all relevant to what just occurred...

Thanks for sharing that with me Stephen, yes death has become something we sweep under the carpet, we don't want to know about it, and we become afraid of it, when in reality as you said, its just a natural part of life.

Originally Posted by Kaere

I'm sorry Steven but I do not believe that what anyone feels, for whatever circumstance, is silly. They are real feelings and to me, it would be incredibly hurtful for someone to call my feelings 'silly'... culturally induced or not, it doesn't matter. They are still there and are being experienced by a real person, not a concept.

What is among the most common thing that a spirit is asked to do once they've passed on? That's to come back and consul those who were left behind.

We are encouraged to feel things because they fit with a cultural concept... while the "other side" is not wired that way... for us to feel guilty about another passing-on is indeed silly.... we can miss them, and love them, and wish them the absolute best, but to feel guilty shouldn't enter the picture..

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Thanks for sharing that with me Stephen, yes death has become something we sweep under the carpet, we don't want to know about it, and we become afraid of it, when in reality as you said, its just a natural part of life.

You are most welcomed Psy! Death is hard enough as it is without us going out of our way to make it even harder... You indeed did right by your mom based on your love for her at the moment... I would be faced with very similar were it my child or my wife!!

I understand Kaere's concern.

I would never want to go up the bereft and tell them they are being silly... as they are likely overwhelmed with all kinds of turbulent and painful emotions.

While I personally think its silly for myself to feel guilty in such a circumstance... I would not want to take another persons guilt lightly.

I've often found that many people don't understand why they are experiencing certain emotions and have trouble comprehending how someone would feel differently... In effect, you could make someone feel worse and more confused... kind of like saying just 'get over it' when they have no idea how, or possibly are not capable of understanding at the time. I wouldn't want to inflict that on someone who recently lost a loved one.

To me its a matter of extending an olive branch, but its up to the receiver to do what they will with it.

I can't 'make' someone understand something just because I want them to... its an issue I've struggled with personally.

[psychoslice]

Stephen isn't stupid you know, of course he didn't mean to just go up to the person and tell them their silly, its in hindsight that we realize we've been, well, a little silly, as in my case with my own mothers death.

I didnt intend to imply Steven was stupid....
In my opinion I think he is very intelligent.

Originally Posted by missrachel300

I didnt intend to imply Steven was stupid....
In my opinion I think he is very intelligent.

I freely admit I can be stupid at times!! :^)

And I readily agree with Psy when it comes to how this "silly" is handled! I view "silly" in an empathetic way. It's not a dismissive manor-of-being toward another, it's simply a realization that we'll sometimes tend to exhaust ourselves needlessly over something that's not really necessary. If a person feels guilt over something outside their control then the term silly should be freely applied. In this case the individual did the only option that was reasonable (release a fellow soul from a temporary run-in with machines). This was a wise move on their part. To feel guilty in this case is silly... but silly with a big hug attached...! :^)

I agree with you Stephen. And just about everything else you said before.

But I was trying to explore other angles. Angles from the other persons 'possible' mind set or perspective. One that I think Kaere was trying to get at but was maybe misunderstood.

Like... we don't know if this person is spiritually inclined... they may not be open to the ideas of all the things we talk about here, or able to understand them as we have come to understand them.... it could make them very uncomfortable... they may not get 'our' obvious silliness and it could be translated poorly causing an adverse reaction.... This is why 'I' would treat the guilt in a more serious manner.

I would caution Elle not to get too attached to the idea of making him understand... there is only so much she can do, this friend will learn his own lessons in his own time, and until then, 'I' would be understanding towards his feelings of guilt.... even though I don't agree with them personally.

And I say that 'I' struggle with this personally because 'I' have on many occasions been too pushy in trying to get people to get things that I felt were just so obvious(but really they were only obvious to me). This can involuntarily cause more problems... despite our good intentions.

Just some of my experiences and ideas.

I hope no one takes them the wrong way.... *cough*psycho*cough*

Please giggle along with me.

Originally Posted by missrachel300

Like... we don't know if this person is spiritually inclined... they may not be open to the ideas of all the things we talk about here, or able to understand them as we have come to understand them.... it could make them very uncomfortable... they may not get 'our' obvious silliness and it could be translated poorly causing an adverse reaction.... This is why 'I' would treat the guilt in a more serious manner.

But even with this you're assuming a great deal about the individual that may or may not be applicable. And, in a way, you're over-extending the use of the term silly into the assumptive realm of it being dismissive of the individual them-self. The term "silly" is applicable in the broadest of terms, while the counsel itself would be customizable in relation to the individual involved.

And don't underestimate what others can relate to. I had a friend of mine that died some years ago, and I was blessed with the exposure of watching what happened, from his perspective, after passing. It was a truly profound 20 seconds or so. I was then asked to share what I saw/experienced with his relatives at his funeral... yikes... this was a group of intensely religious folks, while what I had to say was quite soul-based and neutral in nature... I held my breath and told them the story... they not only did well with it but they cried and hugged me afterward. This validated at least that their love-one lived-on... boy was I relieved... and surprised by how wrong that I was... I had assumed much of what you have here, but hadn't allowed for the flexibility that exists when we are talking as one soul to another. We inwardly know far more than we realize, and when these cords are struck in such a way, then we may intimately hear them in spite of belief.

Now had I said another was "stupid" for feeling as they did.... now that would be derisive in a most unusable way... but "silly" is not a bad thing... silly is respectful of our innate limitations... my wife and I are both silly quite often over many many things that we respond to and get overly exited about... it seems the older we get the sillier things become... it truly doesn't hurt to re-evaluate our attachments.... in some ways it would be silly for us not to... :^)