Satan Doesn't Exist

[Joe Mc]

You have heard it before, that the greatest trick that Satan has ever played is
to convince people that he doesn't exist.

That is an amazing observation so profound and I feel in some ways it relates to the neo advaita movement who say there is no Sin, no greed hatred or delusion,
nothing to be done. I feel atm that Sin or Greed Hatred and Delusion to put it into a Buddhist context are very real, as real as can be let's say and without working with them ..
The ego mind (Satan) really does have a great field day and runs amok really. Just an observation I thought I'd throw out there.

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[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

*Deleted*

If you look through the forum you'll find hundreds if not thousands of references to the things I mentioned in my post, Satan, Sin, Greed Hatred and Delusion and Advaita ?
So you mean Sin, Greed, Hatred and Delusion are psychological as opposed to Spiritual ?? Is that the point you are trying to make ? And by what by reasoning
have you come to that conclusion may I ask ? You seem to have very clear demarcations as to what is psychological and what is spiritual, I have noticed this in
your previous postings. You also shared before that you were a participant of cognitive therapy or an advocate of that therapy or a counsellor perhaps ?

Would you care to say something about Nisagardatta's 3 year sadhana practice advised by his Guru prior to his awakening, could that be thought of as a type of
cognitive therapy or was it purely spiritual ? hmmm interesting.

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That would be the neo-Advaita view.

It's also the traditional Advaita view of Absolute reality however trad-Advaita (can I coin that?) also acknowledges the relative view of reality as that's the movie we think we're in. As Swami Vivekanda would say, "Learn to work the machine" and that's difficult if you take the machine to be literal illusion. One way trad-Advaita describes Maya is it cannot be said to be unreal because it appears and yet cannot be said to be real because its destroyed by knowledge. It's indeterminate.

It's not that there's nothing there. It's not that there's something there. It's that there's No Thing in a way our senses and mind simply cannot perceive and comprehend, and even that indeterminacy is illumined by the Light of Pure Knowing. You know when you know. You know when you don't know. You know when you are uncertain.

EDIT: Do you ever not know? That's the You Advaita points to.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Would you care to say something about Nisagardatta's 3 year sadhana practice advised by his Guru prior to his awakening, could that be thought of as a type of
cognitive therapy or was it purely spiritual ? hmmm interesting.

The point I'm trying to make is make sure you're not perpetuating Chinese Whispers. I said what I meant and if I didn't say it I didn't mean it.

Advaita doesn't say there is no sin, so if that's your interpretation then you've misunderstood it. The ego mind isn't Satan either, since Satan comes from Sumerian mythology.

If you're going to talk about Advaita, how many 'things' do you have in the OP? By the way, that Greenslade 'thing' too.

[JayTruther]

I like the topic.

Is the mind/thoughts Satan and living with no mind Jesus? Or better said Heaven and Hell.

A simple example....

I suffer somewhat with anxiety, don't know why just had this forever. So I have a job interview coming up and also a massive wedding to attend on the weekend.

The mind has been racing regarding this interview and wedding. All I can say is that the mind pretty much feels like it's attacking me, creating fake scenarios and pretty much putting me down and causing more anxiety and suffering.

I understand that ignoring all this is possible, but that's not taking away the fact the mind is actually a bully.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

I like the topic.
Is the mind/thoughts Satan and living with no mind Jesus? Or better said Heaven and Hell.

Woww ! Very well described, i know the territory well unfortunately ! Also I'm rushing out the door atm so don't have so much time to comment.
I'd like to say a bit more hopefully not in a Chinese whisper ... Don't worry Greensleeves I'll be commenting on my Chinese whispering characteristics too...
And JASG nice one thanks for the comment man !!!

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[Miss Hepburn]

Another reminder: The Admins have requested since Nov 2020 to, please, only quote 2-3 sentences ...
you can always ref to the post #.

[Native spirit]

I would have to re iterate what Miss Hepburn has said about the quotes.
Also please keep this topic polite


Namaste

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

IWould you care to say something about Nisagardatta's 3 year sadhana practice advised by his Guru prior to his awakening, could that be thought of as a type of cognitive therapy or was it purely spiritual ? hmmm interesting.

The problem is that people make clear demarcation lines between Spirituality and psychology based on nothing more than it not suiting their paradigm. They use words from psychology as you do - ego being one - without much of an idea of what an ego is, and they don't realise that what the ego is or isn't is psychoanalysis and not Spirituality. As for the self, it gets worse. Nobody mentions 'Ahamkara,' nobody mentions 'Atman'.

And nobody will tell you that Jung based his model of the ego on the Ahamkara and his model of the self on the Atman, for which he gained high praise from the Advaita Vedanta hierarchy at the time.

Cognitive behaviour is essentially how we think, and it can be either constructive or destructive. In the Eightfold Path there is Right Thinking, something else that isn't mentioned in these forums. Right Thinking is close enough to constructive cognitive behaviour as makes no difference. If you spend time researching the Ahamkara - and I strongly suggest you do because the understanding dovetails nicely with both Duality and non-Duality - you'll find loads of psychology in Sanskrit.

Sadhana can be therapeutic while constructive cognitive behaviour - aka Right Thinking - leads to Right Understanding. Redefining the ego and the self amongst so many others for the sake of agenda is not Enlightened.

There is psychology and there is Spirituality, sometimes you have to separate them so you know which is which then put them back into a relationship.

In the West Spirituality is the "What?" and psychology is the "How?" In the East they're one and the same.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

You have heard it before, that the greatest trick that Satan has ever played is to convince people that he doesn't exist.

neo advaita movement who say there is no Sin, no greed hatred or delusion,
nothing to be done.:

Neo advaita is not true advaita . Original Advaita talks of maya (a camouflaged mask worn by God with very attractive looks to deceive the seeker) . Advaita does not say it does not exists . It says it has not independent power of its own. So accordingly Satan (camouflaged Maya) definitely has power in the life of those who give it more power to it. I have read somewhere Satan descriptions in Abrahmic religions too does not give independent power to satan.

Nothing to be done is not the authentic view of Advaita . Shankaracharya - who coined word Advaita first - moved entire India from South to North on feet and established 4 maths in 4 corners of India in a short life span of 32 years . So nothing to be done is superficial glamourous yet very dangerous teaching of neo-advaita and not that of authentic true advaita.

So if u say there is satan , there can indeed be one (as He makes sure everyone feels that he/she is correct and enjoys the great play called life in consonance with His rules of the game) but where and with what power God only knows.