Non Dual pointers! Pointing at what can't be pointed at.

[JayTruther]

Hey

That was pretty well explained, except the higher self part. I would just change that to either life, God, or simply energy moving. To say higher self tends to have the mind looking again for a something (higher self)

So ultimately what you have said was EXPERIENCED here and has been seen to be 100% true.

Now knowing this, which practice or tradition can have this happen?

Originally Posted by JayTruther

These pointers really dont, for me anyway point towards the natural state, its actually more confusing and frustrating after an actual glimpse.

Originally Posted by JayTruther

It's all been researched and become felt experience, anyone can spout higher truths and tell "me" to find a tradition to follow but this has already been seen.

Shouldn't a glimpse bring more clarity to the pointers? As an example Dṛg-Dṛśya-Viveka is a classic Advatia pointer and if its Realized (lived experience) the pointer becomes crystal clear. https://blog.advaitashram.org/drg-drsya-viveka/

How can a map have less clarity after it leads one to its destination?

[JayTruther]

There is tons more clarity in pointings.

Yet pointers are still just pointers (words) who knows what's actually going on in any individuals so called "awakening" or falling away whatever you wanna call it.

I'm surprised after pointing out what has been seen to "others" it's met with EGO.

I'm just pointing out what I saw, others seem to be imparting knowledge and opinion.

The mind can guess all it likes why this, why that but the hamster is still on the wheel.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

Now knowing this, which practice or tradition can have this happen?

Though the term non-duality was coined in Advaita tradition of Hinduism , you can follow any other tradition if you are comfortable with any other tradition . My understanding and experience is that with sincerity , honesty and perseverance other traditions too can help you reach the state .Physically active life with positive attitude and adequate reasonable day to day challenges will let u get the practical aspect & importance of such concepts in your routine life.

If you are in NYC , there are lectures of Swami Sarvapriyananda lectures you can attend . There are lots of you tube video on this forum, u can study .

Would recommend you to examine your expectations from such experiences and take up such initiatives as longer pursuits .

[JayTruther]

I think few things are lost in translation.

But thank you for the back and forth without us being fake.

I'm from U.K and have quite a few talks I can attend if need be.

Take care

Originally Posted by JayTruther

Have you had a glimpse? If yes I'm eager to hear what insights you may have.

Search YouTube for "Lucid waking.......Rupert Spira".

[Miss Hepburn]

I've never heard the term 'pointers'. Does that mean the techniques offered by yogis or others teachers ?
I can only assume, but would rather be clear on this. Thanks.

[JayTruther]

Pointers are what "teachers" use to point towards no self.

Such as, Who am I? Etc

What you are looking for is what's looking!

Anything that is said that points the mind inwards or simply the mind cannot grab hold of is a pointer.

Hope that makes sense :)

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

Pointers are what "teachers" use to point towards no self.
Such as, Who am I? Etc
Anything that is said that points the mind inwards or simply the mind cannot grab hold of is a pointer.

No self was used by Buddhists when the world around them had turned materialistic so much that there was not an imagination of what a spirit can be . So Buddhists started as no self to negate the idea of narrow parochial material meaning which people were fully conversant and as an aid to point to something spiritual . Over a period of time 'No self' has become extremely rigid that identification and association with greater /cosmic self also is opposed . Also along with no self idea of zeroness also became popular . Zeroness of material identification is ok . But without understanding it in right reference zeroness to has potential to create chaos . In psychology negation simply does not work . Mind simply can not know NoSelf. So sole reference to no self without discussion of real self at times led to chaos . So while reference to No material narrow self is right , similar emphasis on higher greater spiritual self which (Sat-Chit-Anand ie permanent-conscious-blissful ) is also very important.

[Miss Hepburn]

Thanks, Jay. Post #18.
Ya know there is a guy that had similar questions and wrote a GREAT book!
Michael Langford 's "The Direct Means to Eternal Bliss".
NOT to be confused with his Vol 1 - "The Most Direct Means to Eternal Bliss"- a different format, it is not my favorite.

Small excerpt to get an idea:
Instead of having some vague practice where one is told to pay attention to the "I AM" without ever being sure exactly what the "I AM" is .... p 46.

Another clip: After 27 years, the author (him, ha) was still not sure what "I AM" means in direct experience....
The author wanted an understanding that was so clear, there would be nothing vague remaining.


Gotta add: Reminder to all...this Forum asks us to quote only 2-3 sentences of others.