What is real - What is an illusion

[movingalways]

When phenomena are realized as being of the Self or Reality, phenomena are real.

When phenomena are experienced as being separate from the Self or Reality, phenomena are experienced as an illusion.

Therefore, in order to realize the Real Self, one needs to drop the illusion of separation. All wisdom scriptures and wisdom spiritual books are written with this one goal in mind. And when they have served their purpose, they are put aside.

[FallingLeaves]

i don't know there is only one such goal; in fact I think there might in fact be seven different ones (to cover the 7 lamps of god).

The taoists framed a similar idea in terms of following the 'ideal' way of life, until the day you are able to drop it and can follow the tao more directly.

But you could perhaps see that as long as you are following some ideal (as opposed to tao) you are in fact enforcing a separation between one thing and another? And on the other hand you could perhaps see that what you have proposed is itself an ideal to follow until you can drop it?

personally though i suspect such things may just be a form of training yourself over a long period of time, the same way you would train animals to do tricks. But of course I don't really know...

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by movingalways

Therefore, in order to realize the Real Self, one needs to drop the illusion of separation.

How do you suggest people do this?

Peace

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by iamthat

How do you suggest people do this?

Peace

Especially when there is the notion that the selfhood is illusory and no one is actually here .

Perhaps the question could be, how does someone who isn't actually hear realise anything ..


x daz x

Originally Posted by movingalways

When phenomena are realized as being of the Self or Reality, phenomena are real.

For the most part people don't realise their self, certainly in this forum and in "What is the self?" type threads they create a Persona or a mask of convenience that is an extension of their egos. If you're going to go the Spiritual route then strictly speaking what decides what is real or not doesn't exist so from that perspective there is neither Duality nor non-Duality.

That's the illusion.

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by iamthat

How do you suggest people do this?

Peace

It's not mysterious or complicated, keep to the truth of no separation.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by movingalways

It's not mysterious or complicated, keep to the truth of no separation.

Good afternoon movingalways

Another that plays the fringes

[muffin]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

I suspect such things may just be a form over a long period of time,

Good afternoon FallingLeaves

That far down the rabbit hole, how many life times

And yes, I changed it a bit

Hope you don't mind

[FallingLeaves]

hi muffin!

well we aren't really told where we are going, the best we can do is just whatever we think we need for now until we see for ourselves where our choices have lead us and then we can decide if it is suitable or not. Then we can kinda refine things. So yeah getting lost for a while is part of the mix, as is mixing it up now and again!

[inavalan]

[quote=God-Like]Especially when there is the notion that the selfhood is illusory and no one is actually here .
Perhaps the question could be, how does someone who isn't actually hear realise anything ../quote] It seems that all these slogans originates form someone's psychic experience, experiences that came through distorted by beliefs and limited understanding, that when communicated to others got further distorted, ... Most people focus on words and sentences that don't make sense, repeating them to others as if those were some high knowledge.

The only way out of it is to have that kind of experiences for yourself in altered states of consciousness, making all the efforts to put aside all your beliefs and expectations. Your truths are unconscious beliefs. Your conscious beliefs are assumptions. Forget all the dogmas and gurus you followed.