Is consciousness nondual?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Having said all the above, being dispassionate, in the context I talked about above, means not having any strong emotions about seeking physical/mental pleasure, comfort, security etc for the sake of gaining physical/mental pleasure, comfort, security etc, .

Hi Mike ,
I understand your point on being dispassionate and fully agree with it . My post was more with regards to actions which may be beyond physical/mental pleasure, comfort, security (as described in previous post). Also I have not written anything to rebut that point.

My post is a clarification to the idea that Good and bad both have equal importance. In spirituality this is not true. In the eyes of God , Good definitely holds more value and that people should / must aspire to .

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

So what are you upto. How your actions are performed if its not told employer/family head/king to you. Do you ignore good/bad and be indifferent to it. .

Yup. I'm still passionate/desired/attached to forums/people, and so not enlightened yet.
If I am dispassionate wholly, would I be around here?

I'm not desiring crucification.
See, every situation comes based on past karmas. Even the crucification of Jesus is his past karmas. No one can escape karma, and only Karmic effects can be experienced.

So, whatever the karmic effect have to be experienced, be goodness or crucification, let it be...

Say, you love everyone. Now, what is your compassionate action to Russia-Ukraine Conflict?
Ukraine don't want to lose it's control over territories. US wants to use Ukraine as a Trump card to pin Russia, and increase it's dominance over Asia. Russia wants to improve it's position against the pressure of US.
So, any action you do as compassion, say help Ukraine people, is an action against Russia's desires. If help Russia, then it's against West.
So, love for everyone cannot be shown in action, as it ruins the opposing one's needs and actions.

So, love is better be silent action, like God watching everything silently, as he loves everyone?

If a person deserves something, he will receive it from other person. So, compassion is also not important. Say, a dog is struggling in a stream. It's fate is based on previous karmas. If one jumps out of compassion to save, but it's fate is to die in that stream, then one cannot save it.
I'm not saying Never be compassionate, but compassion is also not important like passionate action, as Karmic effects take care what other person deserves.
If X is not compassionate and not save the dog, it is not a matter of X, some Y happen to do it if Dog deserves such karmic effects.

Any action, never important, just Karmic effects of each and everyone plays around.

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

My post is a clarification to the idea that Good and bad both have equal importance. In spirituality this is not true. In the eyes of God , Good definitely holds more value and that people should / must aspire to .

Good, only has value, in eyes of Indra/Zeus.

God, never gives any value to action. Even Moksha is for Ravan too.

See, you might have heard Sattva-Rajas-Tamas.
God, never gives value only to Sattvic person. To God, everyone is equal. He might only ask, only to keep 3 gunas balanced and reach him.

That's what Jesus and everyone ask, to reach God soon and never desire this worldly life.

Ramana, Sages, etc., Never seek this Good action. Just keep balanced of 3 gunas and attain Moksha and merge with God soon. That is the real spirituality.

Goodness, is only valuable to Indira/Yehweh/Zeus/etc..

For spiritual persons, never desire for any action. Karma takes care of people, but not each other. One is responsible only for what they desire, but not responsible to any living beings/earth. You have to understand about Karma more, when comes to spirituality. Action never important.

Life and action never important, and Upanishads/Scriptures too says that for one who is into spirituality.

You will come to understand this, when desire to live/act reduce more.

So, see you.. I'm about to take a break (think it is long until enlightenment/new learning).

Take care.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

My post is a clarification to the idea that Good and bad both have equal importance. In spirituality this is not true. In the eyes of God , Good definitely holds more value and that people should / must aspire to .

Yep, I was just putting being dispassionate into more perspective. Also yes, as the saying goes: god is good. Since god is good, god's creations are also good, by default.

[Miss Hepburn]

Anyone that has Amazon Prime: There is a Documentary on who we are, quantum physics and
18 minutes in on Consciousness. :)
"3 Magic Words"

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Anyone that has Amazon Prime: There is a Documentary on who we are, quantum physics and
18 minutes in on Consciousness. :)
"3 Magic Words"

The 3 magic words documentary was inspired by the books 3 magic words, by U.S Anderson, some of which, I have read a few years ago.

Originally Posted by inavalan

Sometimes we "think too hard".

It is detrimental because we rely on incomplete data (distorted perceptions), have a limited intellect, are driven by emotions, and (most of us) have no or embryonic intuition.

We don't get good answers by thinking hard. Even if momentarily we can't do much about it, being aware of that is recommended.

Inavalan, et al,

Whenever I see ‘consciousness’ it catches my attention. Rather than wading thru 22 pages of postings I often find that the first responses can be most noteworthy. Going off on tangents always has the danger of losing focus.

There are 2 books in my library that seem relevant. The first is _From Normal to Healthy: The Liberation of Consciousness_ by Georg Kuhlewind. The title, in itself, reveals the premise and focus of the book. What we deem as normal is , in reality, not demonstrably healthy. If we believe ourselves to be conscious, he suggests that we ask ourselves 2 questions: When was the last that I had a new thought ? When was the last time that I had a new feeling ? If we are trapped in the past we are in need of liberation. He reminds us that conscious actions of the past produced wars, slavery, destruction of the environment etc. Given a fresh starts he postulates that this would be repeated. Where is consciousness ?

The other book is _Awareness_ by Anthony De Mello. The opening words are Wake Up! Wake Up! This implies that we are asleep and can have no awareness until we become fully conscious.

[movingalways]

Ewwerrin: It seems like being becomes, but how? How can a being BECOME? The point of existence is to BE. Not to become something else... Then how come the only thing that seems to exist in our case is the seeming eternal "becoming something else than itself."?? uhh? huh??? how??

This is an excellent question, one that I believe is asked by most seekers of the truth of 'how one is.'

What is not yet realized in the view of 'becoming something else than itself' is that the causation of form is an inherent principle of (formless) being. In other words, being does not become something when thought arises, rather, being IS itself by causing thoughts OF Itself. Of course, being IS also itself when it is not causing thoughts of itself. Consider the three states of consciousness: waking, when you are aware of your mind and body; dreaming, when your mind and body appears to flow as one and deep sleep, when you are aware of neither. Can you truthfully say that you, consciousness, became a body or a mind or a unicorn or a tree in the waking or dreaming state? If you had done so, is it not true that you would now BE a body or a mind or a unicorn or a tree?

Regardless of the form being takes or does not take, being IS (always) being. Just as regardless of the form being takes or does not take, being is (always) non dual. Yep - that means duality is not true.

[zerojack]

There is no easy answer to this question, as consciousness is a complex and multi-faceted phenomenon. However, some schools of thought do suggest that consciousness is nondual in nature.

Nonduality is a philosophical concept that suggests that there is no fundamental division between different aspects of reality. This could be interpreted to mean that consciousness is not fundamentally divided into separate parts, but is instead a unified whole.

There are various arguments both for and against the idea that consciousness is nondual. One argument in favor of this idea is that consciousness seems to be a single, unified experience, even though it is composed of many different elements. For example, when we are conscious, we are aware of our thoughts, feelings, and sensations all at once. This suggests that consciousness is not divided into separate parts, but is instead a unified experience.

Another argument in favor of the nonduality of consciousness is that all of the different elements of consciousness are intimately connected with each other. For example, our thoughts are influenced by our emotions, and our emotions are influenced by our thoughts. This suggests that there is no fundamental division between different aspects of consciousness.

However, there are also arguments against the idea that consciousness is nondual. One argument is that consciousness does seem to be divided into distinct parts, such as the different senses (sight, hearing, smell, etc.). If consciousness were truly nondual, then it would not be possible to have separate senses.

Another argument against the nonduality of consciousness is that some aspects of consciousness, such as thoughts and emotions, seem to be in conflict with each other. For example, we may have a thought that we want to do something

[saurab]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Is consciousness non-dual? And if it is, how come there exists only a becoming in my consciousness?

pure consciousness is non-dual. consciousness mixed with thought is dual.