Zen Anybody

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes the Lotus Flower is used as you have understood yourself ( The Lotus Sutra ) but the Flower Sermon refers to what became Zen which doesn't rely on words but wordless insight and discovering the truth within oneself through silence.

All Buddha's Disciples are waiting for Him to use words to teach them as He usually did but when he remained silent they became confused, they tried to fathom out the meaning of the Lotus Flower which was just used as a symbol, something that was at hand as they are sitting by a pond, he could have picked up a stone and the message would have been the same.


'What can be said, I have said to you and what cannot be said, I have given to Mahā Kāshyapa.” From that day forward, Mahā Kāshyapa became Buddha’s successor.

They focused on the Flower looking for answers when it was the ' Silence ' that held Buddha's Teaching...

I love that "Sermon".

When Buddha lifted up the flower, my sense is that he was saying that there are no words to adequately express the look, the scent, the other characteristics of the flower, etc. One has to experience it directly.

So it is also with the Reality. It cannot be described in words. It must be realized directly in stillness and in silence. Maha Kashyapa reportedly smiled, as did I, when I first heard of this sermon. Much can be communicated in silence, as also in the case of the legendary Dakshinamurti Shiva.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I too love the Zen stories as they trigger reflection and insight. Here's one of my favorite Zen stories from the Korean Zen Master, Seung Sahn. It was sent to me by a friend.

WOMEN CANNOT GET ENLIGHTENMENT

One day, one of Zen Master Seung Sahn's female American students asked him, "Sir, are there any women Zen masters in Korea?"

"No, no , no!" he quickly replied."Of course not!"

The student was completely shocked, even angered by this, more so because Zen Master Seung Sahn himself had always treated his female students with complete equality, and even formally authorized several of them to teach. "How could he think like this?" she thought. "This is completely outrageous." After a few moments, she stammered out, "But how is this possible?"

Eyeing her and half-smiling, he repleied, "Because women cannot get enlightenment".

This was unbelievable. Half-expecting that he was joking, she looked up, but by then he had already marched into another room. She followed him, where he had busied himself with some things, almost as if the conversation had never occurred.

"I have been practicing with you for several years now," she continued. "You have always taught us to believe in our true self 100 percent. How can you possibly say that women cannot get enlightenment?"

Wheeling around sharply, Zen Master Seung Sahn pointed his finger at her and, looking deeply into her eyes strongly, said, "So, you're a 'woman'?"

The student was silent as his teaching sank in.

Originally Posted by sentient

Did it?
Or was she now even more deeply hurt? Her sensibilities 'mortally' wounded?
Did she give him the speech in return - why hurting her was wrong? …. In other words how he, as the Zen teacher is responsible for her emotional wellbeing?
And how he as the Zen teacher should abide by love.

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7GtZpQVU-Y

Barriers of perception ….. those gateless barriers that keep us in our ‘corrals’.
“The Mirror of Self Reflection” (Castaneda) being the most blinding of them all.

How will we ever know “What Is” if we do not enter into the openness of ‘not-knowing’.

*

It's interesting that we had different reactions to that Zen story. Since the woman was reportedly a long-time disciple of this Zen master, my sense is that "the teaching sank in" but I readily concede that I do not know what was in the mind of the disciple at the time of this "teaching". In any case, the master's words definitely got her attention and triggered reflection.


Note: Identification with the body/gender is often considered to be a hindrance to discovery of one's true nature.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sentient

Did it?
Or was she now even more deeply hurt? Her sensibilities 'mortally' wounded?
Did she give him the speech in return - why hurting her was wrong? …. In other words how he, as the Zen teacher is responsible for her emotional wellbeing?
And how he as the Zen teacher should abide by love.

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7GtZpQVU-Y

Barriers of perception ….. those gateless barriers that keep us in our ‘corrals’.
“The Mirror of Self Reflection” (Castaneda) being the most blinding of them all.

How will we ever know “What Is” if we do not enter into the openness of ‘not-knowing’.

*

Originally Posted by sky123

'Did it?

If she Practiced Zen He wouldn't have hurt Her. In my experiences the only person who can hurt me emotionally is me, for expecting to much from others....

My sense also was that she was NOT hurt (ultimately though perhaps initially) by what the Zen Master said but my reason is different. I really think that "the teaching sank in", as the story indicates.

What point do you think that the Zen Master was making?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

My sense also was that she was NOT hurt (ultimately though perhaps initially) by what the Zen Master said but my reason is different. I really think that "the teaching sank in", as the story indicates.

What point do you think that the Zen Master was making?

You don't ' Get ' Enlightenment it's ourTrue Nature and already ours, we only need to see/realise/notice it in the present moment.

Enlightenment doesn't have Gender...

[sentient]

Originally Posted by sky123

Enlightenment doesn't have Gender...

‘We’ call that “Third Gender”.
When the shaman has gone through the “Shamanic Death Experience” – he or she is now beyond gender (which isn’t about having become transgender or gay) ….

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

It's interesting that we had different reactions to that Zen story. Since the woman was reportedly a long-time disciple of this Zen master, my sense is that "the teaching sank in" but I readily concede that I do not know what was in the mind of the disciple at the time of this "teaching". In any case, the master's words definitely got her attention and triggered reflection.

A shift into ‘Nondual Silent Communication or Communion’ is rare unless one moves to Central Australia, where it is quite normal and even considered ‘ordinary’ among the traditional peoples there, (my neighbour called it “One Spirit”) …….. which is kinda painful when people (outsiders) do not recognize it.
One can’t fake it by merely entering into non-thought and smiling …

What prevents the recognition is the dual barrier … which acts as a barrier of perception …. And one can conceptualize about it or try to explain it till one is blue in the face and cows come home without making any difference ….

This is my favourite video of a sudden nondual shift, which took them by surprise (because 'you' don't do it ... 'it' just happens):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzQJdvFMeI

*

[Brian100]

What Enlightenment have you found out ?

[sentient]

When the nondual silent communication is considered normal and natural – one doesn’t burst out laughing in surprise, but yes – you smile.
But one can see how the other person’s aura or ‘energy field’ lights up like a lamp.

I’ve only come in contact with 2 people in my life – whose ‘light’ was constant and I must confess – their level of non-attachment was a bit ‘far out –no return’ frightening to me.

The surrounding areas around them went into ‘shadows’ when they appeared.

The barrier of perception makes this awareness energy/light either visible or invisible ….. and one's 'corral' either permits entry into that sphere or doesn't.

*

[sentient]

There is a technique Northern Territorians use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tow2tR_ezL8

The Elder who first used this technique on me I immediately recognized - because my grandmother used the same technique to *shift* us into what I call ‘Nondual Silent Communion’ but my neighbour – the Custodian called this *shift* …… “One Spirit”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr_wbGswbwI

*

[Brian100]

If you want to experience Zen do like Cheech and Chong did with a big joint in the car.

I laughed so hard.

It like erases everything in you mind!

[sky]

Originally Posted by sentient

‘We’ call that “Third Gender”.
When the shaman has gone through the “Shamanic Death Experience” – he or she is now beyond gender (which isn’t about having become transgender or gay) ….


A shift into ‘Nondual Silent Communication or Communion’ is rare unless one moves to Central Australia, where it is quite normal and even considered ‘ordinary’ among the traditional peoples there, (my neighbour called it “One Spirit”) …….. which is kinda painful when people (outsiders) do not recognize it.
One can’t fake it by merely entering into non-thought and smiling …

What prevents the recognition is the dual barrier … which acts as a barrier of perception …. And one can conceptualize about it or try to explain it till one is blue in the face and cows come home without making any difference ….

This is my favourite video of a sudden nondual shift, which took them by surprise (because 'you' don't do it ... 'it' just happens):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzQJdvFMeI

*

' A shift into ‘ Nondual Silent Communication or Communion’ is rare unless one moves to Central Australia '


I don't think it needs a certain place to ' Happen ', you will find reports Globally and in all Belief Systems from Ancient Scriptures....