Zen Anybody

[Hologram8]

Originally Posted by sky123

How do you know which way to walk and how to not trip on something, bump into a tree or another Person etc: ? You find your way back home by thinking your directions otherwise you would be walking around in circles

you didn't read my post and follow my link -- I walk in the house - I have a clock in plain view --- every 15 minutes I change direction

the only thought required is looking at the clock - which could be eliminated with a meditation timer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFxdQB6OFiY
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so you caught me in a lie ----- I think about the clock sometimes
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actually - I don't really think about the clock - I just notice it when I walk by
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maybe I should invest in a meditation timer -- but the truth is I'm not worried about it -- I'm not trying to not think -- I'm just doing my thing

[sky]

Originally Posted by Hologram8

you didn't read my post and follow my link -- I walk in the house - I have a clock in plain view --- every 15 minutes I change direction

the only thought required is looking at the clock - which could be eliminated with a meditation timer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFxdQB6OFiY

You walk for 2 half hours around the house... Oh.
Changing directions every 15 mins requires thinking

It's not so easy is it. There are few things we can do without thinking, sneezing, blinking, ,
breathing, moving our tongues to produce words, shivering/sweating are just a few I can think about right now but it's not as easy as we think.....

[Hologram8]

Originally Posted by sky123

You walk for 2 half hours around the house... Oh.
Changing directions every 15 mins requires thinking

It's not so easy is it. There are few things we can do without thinking, sneezing, blinking, ,
breathing, moving our tongues to produce words, shivering/sweating are just a few I can think about right now but it's not as easy as we think.....

I really don't put that much thought into it
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really I'm not concerned with it all
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I think about the clock sometimes - I would say thats pretty minimal
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like I said I'm not trying - so it being easy or not isn't even an issue - it would only be an issue if I was trying to not think - which I'm not
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I'm not trying to be a zen cult guy - I just came to this thread to post a link to chan magazine and got caught up in a conversation
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In real life there are no conversations - because I live in solitude - thats the way I want it
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[Hologram8]

a lot of people do it in China - I'm not so different -it's quite common actually

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Hologram8

a lot of people do it in China - I'm not so different -it's quite common actually

Chinese aren't exactly "white" ......

*

[Joe Mc]

We should meet thought when it arises with kindness, openness, firmness perhaps and a little curiosity. Just as when and if you were to meet a person with ostensible mental difficulties, you would not treat them with derision, or any type of condemnation. I mean by mental difficulties when it seems in that person that mind is hyped, in the form of many thoughts, words, delusions etc. etc. We i hope meet that person with tolerance, kindness and compassion perhaps and understanding. So when you meet with your own mental difficulties you should have the same attitude even if you have not been 'classified' as someone suffering from mental illness.

This glimmer of awareness has saved me at particularly difficult times in my life when unconscious material decided to come hurtling through into the conscious mind in the form of thoughts, fears, and such like. It is amazing how powerful awareness can be. It could literally keep you in the game as they say. Just a couple of thoughts, forgive my incredible pun there on the word thought, i am so funny as usual !!! lololol

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Hologram8

maybe writing it requires thinking - but I assure you - when I am walking - I am not thinking anything at all
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it is only void
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Sounds like your typical 'walking meditation'.

It seems the only ones who can understand what a 'walking meditation' is, are those who have experienced 'walking meditations'.

[Phaelyn]

We use that word "thinking" in sentences as if it is referring to one specific thing we do, but really it is not so simple. "Thinking" not only has two completely different sources of it's creation, it also has two completely opposite relationships with us, consciousness.

One source of creation is the brain, using the brain of course. Obviously a sub-conscious process. The other source of creation is consciousness which also uses the brain and language to conceptualize understanding or experience. To visualize it in a sense to communicate it to others or to oneself.

It's like the difference between going about our day with no awareness of our breathing at all, as opposed to consciously controlling our breath as in holding it or doing deep breaths.

One major purpose of the brain is to automate routine tasks freeing us up to use our very limited attention ( science says a human can only be consciously aware of four things at one time max.) to do other things. Imagine how dreary life would be if we had to think every time we opened a door or picked up a bite of food from our plate with a fork.

So walking requires no thinking, nor does turning a corner. But just like breathing, just because the body can and does do it without "us" or the consciousness being involved in it at all, we do have the option to focus on it and to do it consciously if we have a reason to. That is actually a practice in zen which is to try to do everything consciously. To be aware of all the things we normally do all day long on auto-pilot or unconsciously.

Also, consciousness has the attribute of understanding. This is similar to the brains understanding that allows it to unconsciously do things like breathe and jump when it spots a snake or to do any repetitive physical thing. Understanding and awareness allows consciousness to do things on auto-pilot.

The body doing things unconsciously is not really thinking. Thinking is verbal or uses language, words, phrases. The same with consciousness adapting to understanding and awareness. It's not verbal therefore not thinking. Thinking is very much a linear process. One thought after the next, and all referencing memory. The brain does massive parallel processing at a rate of a billion billion calculations a second. That is what allows us to walk and run around objects and jump over a log, open a door, eat etc... That is not "thinking."

Calculators and computers do not think. They follow code and their program. Thinking to a human being is basically two things. "Talking in our heads" which is result of unconscious conditioning, habits, memories and such, fears, superstitions, knowledge, and on and on.... and the flow of that is brain to consciousness. Or conceptualized understanding and that talking in our heads, the flow of that is consciousness to brain to consciousness. Very limited is what is actually represented in the conceptualization of understanding as experience can never be conceptualized in any real way.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Sounds like your typical 'walking meditation'.

It seems the only ones who can understand what a 'walking meditation' is, are those who have experienced 'walking meditations'.

Monks, there are these five benefits of walking up and down. What five?
One is fit for long journeys; one is fit for striving; one has little disease; that which is eaten, drunk, chewed, tasted, goes through proper digestion; the composure attained by walking up and down is long-lasting.
These, monks, are the five benefits of walking up and down.
Cankama Sutta.


Buddha mentioned walking in more than one sutra.

“Breathing in, I am aware of my whole body. Breathing out, I am aware of my whole body. Breathing in, I calm my body. Breathing out, I calm my body.’Moreover, when a practitioner walks, he is aware, ‘I am walking.’” — Discourse on the Four Establishments of Mindfulness.

Buddha taught walking meditation two times. In the section called "Postures," he said that a monk knows "I am walking" when he is walking, knows "I am standing" when he is standing, knows "I am sitting" when he is sitting, and knows "I am lying down" when he is lying down. In another section called "Clear Comprehension," the Buddha said, "A monk applies clear comprehension in going forward and in going back." Clear comprehension means the correct understanding of what one observes. To correctly understand what is observed, a yogi must gain concentration, and in order to gain concentration, he must apply mindfulness. Therefore, when the Buddha said, "Monks, apply clear comprehension," we must understood that not only clear comprehension must be applied, but also mindfulness and concentration. Thus the Buddha was instructing meditators to apply mindfulness, concentration, and clear comprehension while walking, while "going forward and back." Walking meditation is thus an important part of this process.


So Walking Meditation involves THOUGHT.... I agree with what you said,



' It seems the only ones who can understand what a 'walking meditation' is, are those who have experienced 'walking meditations'.[/quote] '

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

We use that word "thinking" in sentences as if it is referring to one specific thing we do, but really it is not so simple. "Thinking" not only has two completely different sources of it's creation, it also has two completely opposite relationships with us, consciousness.

One source of creation is the brain, using the brain of course. Obviously a sub-conscious process. The other source of creation is consciousness which also uses the brain and language to conceptualize understanding or experience. To visualize it in a sense to communicate it to others or to oneself.

It's like the difference between going about our day with no awareness of our breathing at all, as opposed to consciously controlling our breath as in holding it or doing deep breaths.

One major purpose of the brain is to automate routine tasks freeing us up to use our very limited attention ( science says a human can only be consciously aware of four things at one time max.) to do other things. Imagine how dreary life would be if we had to think every time we opened a door or picked up a bite of food from our plate with a fork.

So walking requires no thinking, nor does turning a corner. But just like breathing, just because the body can and does do it without "us" or the consciousness being involved in it at all, we do have the option to focus on it and to do it consciously if we have a reason to. That is actually a practice in zen which is to try to do everything consciously. To be aware of all the things we normally do all day long on auto-pilot or unconsciously.

Also, consciousness has the attribute of understanding. This is similar to the brains understanding that allows it to unconsciously do things like breathe and jump when it spots a snake or to do any repetitive physical thing. Understanding and awareness allows consciousness to do things on auto-pilot.

The body doing things unconsciously is not really thinking. Thinking is verbal or uses language, words, phrases. The same with consciousness adapting to understanding and awareness. It's not verbal therefore not thinking. Thinking is very much a linear process. One thought after the next, and all referencing memory. The brain does massive parallel processing at a rate of a billion billion calculations a second. That is what allows us to walk and run around objects and jump over a log, open a door, eat etc... That is not "thinking."

Calculators and computers do not think. They follow code and their program. Thinking to a human being is basically two things. "Talking in our heads" which is result of unconscious conditioning, habits, memories and such, fears, superstitions, knowledge, and on and on.... and the flow of that is brain to consciousness. Or conceptualized understanding and that talking in our heads, the flow of that is consciousness to brain to consciousness. Very limited is what is actually represented in the conceptualization of understanding as experience can never be conceptualized in any real way.

'So walking requires no thinking, nor does turning a corner.'


That's because we can think we are not thinking, but walking does require thought as does turning a corner.... We are not always aware of thinking but in the background there are thoughts....