Something (non-duality) out of Nothing (also non-duality).

Originally Posted by MikeS80

This means nothing is indeed something. Nothing/nothingness is just empty unoccupied space that has energy in it. This nothing and energy just exists and is eternal-has no beginning and has no end.

If nothing is indeed something, is it still nothing? If that unoccupied space has energy in it, is the unoccupied space not occupied by energy? Spirituality will tell you that there is no such thing as nothing, and science is beginning to understand that this also applies to the physical world/occupied space. Empty, unoccupied space is occupied by consciousness - IS consciousness. Other than being a perceptual lack, nothing doesn't exist in its own right but the idea or concept of it does give us 'space to move into'.

Something doesn't come out of nothing, nothing comes from something. And using the same underlying process but with different words doesn't give you a different outcome. Are you the artist painting the picture or are you conscious of the artist painting the picture?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Iamit

There is no need to invoke the concept of nothing. For all we know there may have always been something. THE POTENTIAL/ENERGY for something IS something and not nothing.

When the term Oneness is used in nonduality it is not meant to indicate some sort of entity but simply that, despite the very convincing , solid looking appearance of difference, All s One.

To the human ego/I eyes, unoccupied space is empty, no-thing is present in unoccupied space. So yes, nothing is a popular subconscious mental construct, which is the minor point I was making. The major point I was making is:

From a concrete/objective in the eternal right here and right now spiritual point of view,
all the unoccupied space in the universe and beyond is the eternal right here and right now and all occupied space in the universe and beyond fills up the right here and now, which is empty unoccupied space, there is no mental concept at all needed to understand this.

People use spiritual/philosophical concepts, ideas and mental constructs for what they do not see personally/individually with their own 2 eyes.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

To the human ego/I eyes, unoccupied space is empty, no-thing is present in unoccupied space. So yes, nothing is a popular subconscious mental construct, which is the minor point I was making. The major point I was making is:
usly invisible.ctive in the eternal right here and right now spiritual point of view,
all the unoccupied space in the universe and beyond is the eternal right here and right now and all occupied space in the universe and beyond fills up the right here and now, which is empty unoccupied space, there is no mental concept at all needed to understand this.

People use spiritual/philosophical concepts, ideas and mental constructs for what they do not see personally/individually with their own 2 eyes.

It is a big assumption to leap from that which we cant see, to empty. It may be, and always has been, full, though not visible to us. It may well become visible to us as we have discovered many things that were previously invisible.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If nothing is indeed something, is it still nothing? If that unoccupied space has energy in it, is the unoccupied space not occupied by energy? Spirituality will tell you that there is no such thing as nothing, and science is beginning to understand that this also applies to the physical world/occupied space. Empty, unoccupied space is occupied by consciousness - IS consciousness. Other than being a perceptual lack, nothing doesn't exist in its own right but the idea or concept of it does give us 'space to move into'.

Something doesn't come out of nothing, nothing comes from something. And using the same underlying process but with different words doesn't give you a different outcome. Are you the artist painting the picture or are you conscious of the artist painting the picture?

Read my response to Iamit, post #12. Nothing/unoccupied space is something, and that something is the eternal right here and right now, we assume nothing is in unoccupied space because we can't see the energy in unoccupied space with our physical human eyes. This is what I am bringing to peoples consciousness.

All the unoccupied space that surrounds your body and that surrounds every other occupied space is the eternal right here and now. The eternal right here and now is brahman, the tao, truth, god, etc etc.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Iamit

It is a big assumption to leap from that which we cant see, to empty. It may be, and always has been, full, though not visible to us. It may well become visible to us as we have discovered many things that were previously invisible.

Unoccupied space is empty to our human eyes, but it does not mean nothing is in unoccupied space. I use the word empty to mean unoccupied space/the eternal right here and right now is like a blank whiteboard with nothing written on it, so anything is possible in unocupied space/the eternal right here and right now that surrounds our bodies and that surrounds every other occupied space.

Edit: why filll the empty/blank whiteboard of unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now with false, misunderstood, and/or misleading conclusions, concepts, ideas, mental constructs and beliefs that places limits on infinite unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now, when you do not have to?

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Unoccupied space is empty to our human eyes, but it does not mean nothing is in unoccupied space. I use the word empty to mean unoccupied space/the eternal right here and right now is like a blank whiteboard with nothing written on it, so anything is possible in unocupied space/the eternal right here and right now that surrounds our bodies and that surrounds every other occupied space.

Edit: why filll the empty/blank whiteboard of unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now with false, misunderstood, and/or misleading conclusions, concepts, ideas, mental constructs and beliefs that places limits on infinite unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now, when you do not have to?

Agreed. It can just be left that we dont know what it is until more discoveries may be made to show that it is not unoccupied/empty space. Although I suspect we will always want to speculate on what is beyond that which has been discovered without any idea about how correct that speculation may be.

Meanwhile terms like Oneness serve to indicate the nondual story that All is One despite the appearance of difference.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Agreed. It can just be left that we dont know what it is until more discoveries may be made to show that it is not unoccupied/empty space. Although I suspect we will always want to speculate on what is beyond that which has been discovered without any idea about how correct that speculation may be.

Meanwhile terms like Oneness serve to indicate the nondual story that All is One despite the appearance of difference.

I get the concept of oneness/non-duality, that is why I posted this thread in the non-duality section of the forum.

The issue with words that make up concepts, thoughts, ideas and beliefs is that words that make up thoughts, concepts, ideas and beliefs have an opposing word, like one word is good and the opposing word for that word is evil/bad/not real/a dream/an illusion and leaves infinite room for error/misunderstanding/dreams/illusions in the eternal right here and right now (unoccupied space and occupied space).

The opposing word for non-duality is duality and the opposing word for oneness is separation. Unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now and occupied space have no such opposing words (like duality and non-duality and oneness and separation do) because Unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now and occupied space are the 2 units that make up the whole/one.

Opposing words create oppositions, judgments and seperation, even in the name of non-duality and oneness. This is why spiritual teachers like Jiddu Krishnamurti taught that the word is not the thing, the thing is the thing.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I get the concept of oneness/non-duality, that is why I posted this thread in the non-duality section of the forum.

The issue with words that make up concepts, thoughts, ideas and beliefs is that words that make up thoughts, concepts, ideas and beliefs have an opposing word, like one word is good and the opposing word for that word is evil/bad/not real/a dream/an illusion and leaves infinite room for error/misunderstanding/dreams/illusions in the eternal right here and right now (unoccupied space and occupied space).

The opposing word for non-duality is duality and the opposing word for oneness is separation. Unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now and occupied space have no such opposing words (like duality and non-duality and oneness and separation do) because Unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now and occupied space are the 2 units that make up the whole/one.

Opposing words create oppositions, judgments and seperation, even in the name of non-duality and oneness. This is why spiritual teachers like Jiddu Krishnamurti taught that the word is not the thing, the thing is the thing.

Onenes is both sides of all oppositions so no big deal if things happen to oppose. We generally know what we are trying to say, and reach mutual understanding, even if we use different words.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

Non-duality and oneness cannot, in my view, be grasped by lower mind. Fragmented thought can at best assign an imagined meaning to the concept.

For those who have experienced an expansion of consciousness, encompassing all life, as a singular awareness, no doubts remain. Of course, upon descent into duality, our attention bound to mind-body, the continuum of the realisation in active cognition is absent, leaving with us a vivid memory. Flickering awareness.

Yet, the truth that all is one is clear, once having so experienced. Otherwise, it is merely a concept.

Assimilation of the oneness field on a moment to moment basis, as a reflex instinct is possibly what we need to get to. In time.

***

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Read my response to Iamit, post #12. Nothing/unoccupied space is something, and that something is the eternal right here and right now, we assume nothing is in unoccupied space because we can't see the energy in unoccupied space with our physical human eyes. This is what I am bringing to peoples consciousness.

All the unoccupied space that surrounds your body and that surrounds every other occupied space is the eternal right here and now. The eternal right here and now is brahman, the tao, truth, god, etc etc.

There is no space that is not occupied by physical matter in some form, and what is beyond that - if there is such a thing as beyond that - isn't known. Even outer space isn't as much of a vacuum as was once thought. I'm also not clear as to the reason you're differentiating between occupied and unoccupied space. All 'space' is occupied by something, even that beyond the physical - consciousness 'occupies' all 'space'. Every speck of matter has/is consciousness.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The opposing word for non-duality is duality and the opposing word for oneness is separation. Unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now and occupied space have no such opposing words (like duality and non-duality and oneness and separation do) because Unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now and occupied space are the 2 units that make up the whole/one.

Duality is not just about opposites, it's more about relativities than opposites. Oneness doesn't actually exist without separation, hate is Love expressed differently, night is the lack of daylight and so on. Non-duality is nothing without duality, eternal is relative to temporal. Everything exists in relation to something else, that's the big secret of duality. Occupied space is just space until unoccupied space comes into the equation. So the word is not the thing, the thing is the thing and it's the mind that puts things and words into opposition, while the thing just IS.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Unoccupied space/the eternal right here and now and occupied space are the 2 units that make up the whole/one.

Yes it is but you're still stuck in the mindset of duality, meaning no disrespect. We've touched on this before but I think you missed it, if you really want something beyond duality - beyond duality - then look to the Vesica Pisces and Buddhist Sacred Geometry because that gives you the understanding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoMk0estzXc

This is what the duality of relationships - not opposites - is telling you. Not that the two units make up the whole but what is encompassed - encompassed being the key word - by putting them into a relationship. There is 'occupied space', there is 'unoccupied space', and there is another 'space' created in their 'overlap'.

The mind uses words and opposites while consciousness simply encompasses.