Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-03-2020, 01:59 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
never mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
to take a page from your book:
Each of us WILL find the means to justify whatever it is we already believe.
It seems that my beliefs rub you the wrong way. Just stick with "never mind": ignore me.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-03-2020, 02:15 AM
django django is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
  django's Avatar
I believe the scholars who have studied the GOT and conclude that a basic core 50% of early Jesus material was overlaid by a group of people who had a gnostic belief system.

Finding value in the GOT leads to a gnostic worldview, and not a Jesus world view. The bible is a better place to form a Jesus worldview, there’s plenty there to challenge a person and to learn from without adding man-made philosophies into the mix to waylay us.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-03-2020, 02:21 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
 
You can't argue with faith, any kind of faith.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-03-2020, 02:38 AM
django django is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
  django's Avatar
But you can argue with scholars?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-03-2020, 02:47 AM
django django is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
  django's Avatar
“Thomas’s rejection of “the Jews” (GosThom 43) and the Hebrew Bible (GosThom 52), and the text’s disparaging views of Old Testament figures (GosThom 85), reveal a cool, distanced attitude toward what the author considers an irrelevant institution.”

Jesus is passionate about Judaism, saying he wouldn’t change anything about it, yet in the GOT Jews are disparaged. This is a big problem, proving these are not words of Jesus, but the ideas of later Christian sects.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-03-2020, 03:06 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
 
@django:

As I said "You can't argue with faith". Your arguments don't stand. You don't know what Jesus said. You don't even know who or what "Jesus" was. Those scholars don't know either.

We just have a banter on this thread about whatever @BigJohn posted.

My interpretations of those quotes are probably closer to JC's message (and to how the wider reality is) than the dogmas referred by others here, but I don't intend to argue or convince anybody, because I don't care. It's a public forum ...
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-03-2020, 05:09 AM
django django is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
  django's Avatar
Fair enough. But I find it an insult to Christianity, and I find it hard to not respond.

Actually, I’d say Jesus found Pharisaic requirements an insult to Judaism, and he reacted very negatively to their ideas, is it so bad to take a leaf out of his book and stand up adamantly against the infiltration of gnostic ideas into Christianity?

Quote:
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. - John Stuart Mills
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-03-2020, 06:44 AM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
Deactivated Account
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,007
 
In the 4th and 5th centuries, various Church Fathers wrote that the Gospel of Thomas was highly valued by Mani, who was the prophet and the founder of Manichaeism, a religion strongly influenced by Gnosticism which was widespread in the 4th century. In some ancient art of Mani, he looks like Buddha, as he is seated in the lotus position on a large lotus flower.

Cyril of Jerusalem mentioned a "Gospel of Thomas" twice in his Catechesis stating: "The Manichæans also wrote a Gospel according to Thomas, which being tinctured with the fragrance of the evangelic title corrupts the souls of the simple sort." So some basically claimed Mani or Mani's followers wrote it.

Mani was raised a member of the Jewish Christian sect of the Elcesaites so he started out as a Christian. At ages 12 and 24, Mani had visionary experiences of a "heavenly twin" calling him to leave his father's Baptist sect and preach the true message of Jesus in a new gospel. Mani then traveled to India where he studied Hinduism and its various extant philosophies, including Buddhism.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-03-2020, 12:12 PM
django django is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
  django's Avatar
Gods knows I appreciate your post Phaelyn. History is history, it is relevant, what we believe is relevant, it all makes a difference. Funnily enough, you might not actually believe this
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-03-2020, 02:08 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,048
  BigJohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
In the 4th and 5th centuries, various Church Fathers wrote that the Gospel of Thomas was highly valued by Mani, who was the prophet and the founder of Manichaeism, a religion strongly influenced by Gnosticism which was widespread in the 4th century. In some ancient art of Mani, he looks like Buddha, as he is seated in the lotus position on a large lotus flower.

Cyril of Jerusalem mentioned a "Gospel of Thomas" twice in his Catechesis stating: "The Manichæans also wrote a Gospel according to Thomas, which being tinctured with the fragrance of the evangelic title corrupts the souls of the simple sort." So some basically claimed Mani or Mani's followers wrote it.

Mani was raised a member of the Jewish Christian sect of the Elcesaites so he started out as a Christian. At ages 12 and 24, Mani had visionary experiences of a "heavenly twin" calling him to leave his father's Baptist sect and preach the true message of Jesus in a new gospel. Mani then traveled to India where he studied Hinduism and its various extant philosophies, including Buddhism.
But did any of the early Christians consider the Gospel of Thomas to be canon material?

In verse 52 of the Gospel of Thomas, it reads: They said to him: "Twenty four prophets spoke to Israel and they all spoke of you." He responded to them: "You have deserted the living one who is with you and you spoke about the dead." seems to hold up the argument of only 24 books for the Old Testament. Too bad nothing is mentioned for the number of books for the New Testament.

The Gospel of Thomas does claim the book was written by an Apostle which would seem to elevate the book to the same level as the four canonized Gospels. The problem with this argument is that the four respective canonized Gospels never claimed within the Gospels to have been written by Apostles: only tradition makes that claim!

To complicate matters, Justin Martyr (100-165) mentioned gospels in his writings but forgot to mention which gospels.

As a side note: what you mentioned occurred during a time period when various beliefs were being 'worked' into main stream Christianity.
__________________


 
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜

        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜


Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums