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  #1  
Old 20-10-2020, 06:50 PM
Lord_Viskey Lord_Viskey is offline
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Astral Projection versus Soul Flight

Hi ya'll.

I'm looking for a comparison - in your own opinions - what you see as the differences between going on "Soul Flight" or whether you are "Astrally Projecting" yourself.

The descrepency seems to manifest in the level of psychic ability it takes to do either one.

What I know is :

1. that either one can, and does occur, while we are physically alive.
2. there is a certain amount of mental "ability" involved with either one.
3. that, although one can "astrally project" during conscious, "waking" moments,
4. soul flight usually tends to occur while we sleep - (though I do not believe it is confined to that).
5. we have "a self"; "a soul"; and we have "a spirit" - or we are one, (depending on your perspective).


What I'm most curious about is what the reader's view is, as to the most distinctive difference between how an "astral projection" & a "soul flight" are percieved to our own sentient awareness ... how do I know which one I am actually experiencing?

Also, whether you believe, that after physical existence, do you think the soul itself is doing an astral projection when it is seen in the physical world by another (set of "physical" eyes) ?

Do you believe that a "soul" can be attached to an "astral body" - or would the "astral body" possess the soul - if one is ... "exploring" ... other realms, (besides the physical one) ?


I have been giving this some serious thought recently, and I hope the responses will reflect the same sincerity that I think it deserves.
Thank you in advance, for your in-put.
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  #2  
Old 20-10-2020, 07:35 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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I am not familiar with the notion of "soul flight", but from your post I infer that you talk about dreaming, or maybe just lucid-dreaming.

Also, astral-projection is defined in various ways, and I infer that you mean by it projection-onto-the-afterlife-plane.

If so, the difference is where you project: on the plane-of-your-imagination vs. the afterlife-plane.

We do that with different selves, which aren't bodies, but various parts of our psyche / self. When you do this kind of projections you don't get into another "location" in the physical sense, you change the focus of your awareness to another plane, into another area of your psyche / self.

These selves, conscious / dream / inner, are more or less harmonized with each other function of our degree of evolvement. Eventually they should work synergistically, and our conscious should be maintained during sleeping and dreaming, and should be in close contact with our inner-source-of-guidance. The closer to that level, the more accelerated our evolvement is.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #3  
Old 21-10-2020, 06:48 PM
Lord_Viskey Lord_Viskey is offline
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Hi Invalan.
Now I'm going to ask you to expand even a little further if you don't mind...


Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
I am not familiar with the notion of "soul flight", but from your post I infer that you talk about dreaming, or maybe just lucid-dreaming.

By your response, it seems that you are looking at my query with the perspective that "we are a soul" ... and not that "we have a soul".

... which isn't right or wrong (in my view) .. I'm just trying to gain the same perspective you approach the topic from. That's all.

So, if I'm correct, then it also sounds like, "as (being) one," we cannot objectify it (our soul) in any other way than it merely being integral; i.e.; one and the same as our 'consciousness/mind state' - by the fact that you insinuate that it 'might only be experienced' while in a subconscious state of sleeping. Is this the way I should understand your meaning?


Quote:
Also, astral-projection is defined in various ways, and I infer that you mean by it projection-onto-the-afterlife-plane. If so, the difference is where you project: on the plane-of-your-imagination vs. the afterlife-plane.

By the way you have connected these two sentences, are you insinuating that (1; as in preceding clarification) we are only a soul - as in the case of "being an individual - and not a 'self contained bundle of energy' once physical death has occured, so therefore (2) it is our 'astral consciousness' that is the self contained bundle of energy, having the ability to 'manifest' on various planes (and not the soul itself)"? In other words; we are allowed to objectify (point to) our astral state, but not our soul state (as in the sense that an eye cannot see itself; that a finger cannot touch itself), perhaps?

Quote:
We do that with different selves, which aren't bodies, but various parts of our psyche / self. When you do this kind of projections you don't get into another "location" in the physical sense, you change the focus of your awareness to another plane, into another area of your psyche / self
Ok; so now you imply that there is actually "no 'where' that we go to". So, in that respect, how is it possible to experience 'other realms, or locations, where another being's presence/awareness can verify that it has, indeed, occurred (as in "spooky behavior at a distance" - to coin an Einstein phrase)?

And finally;
Quote:
These selves, conscious / dream / inner, are more or less harmonized with each other function of our degree of evolvement. Eventually they should work synergistically, and our conscious should be maintained during sleeping and dreaming, and should be in close contact with our inner-source-of-guidance. The closer to that level, the more accelerated our evolvement is.

I guess that I need to ask : How many 'inner energy levels' do you believe we have the ability to possess, and to be conscious of at one time?

By your reckoning, are there any of these, that shouldn't be objectified ("pointed at") ?
__________________
What is Love ... ?
It is "The Wisdom for the Desire To Return To Purity."
quoted by : "Sophia Of God"
written in the : "Chamber of Eternity"
witnessed by : "Alpha & Omega"
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  #4  
Old 21-10-2020, 07:32 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Viskey
Hi Invalan.
Now I'm going to ask you to expand even a little further if you don't mind...




By your response, it seems that you are looking at my query with the perspective that "we are a soul" ... and not that "we have a soul".

... which isn't right or wrong (in my view) .. I'm just trying to gain the same perspective you approach the topic from. That's all.

So, if I'm correct, then it also sounds like, "as (being) one," we cannot objectify it (our soul) in any other way than it merely being integral; i.e.; one and the same as our 'consciousness/mind state' - by the fact that you insinuate that it 'might only be experienced' while in a subconscious state of sleeping. Is this the way I should understand your meaning?




By the way you have connected these two sentences, are you insinuating that (1; as in preceding clarification) we are only a soul - as in the case of "being an individual - and not a 'self contained bundle of energy' once physical death has occured, so therefore (2) it is our 'astral consciousness' that is the self contained bundle of energy, having the ability to 'manifest' on various planes (and not the soul itself)"? In other words; we are allowed to objectify (point to) our astral state, but not our soul state (as in the sense that an eye cannot see itself; that a finger cannot touch itself), perhaps?


Ok; so now you imply that there is actually "no 'where' that we go to". So, in that respect, how is it possible to experience 'other realms, or locations, where another being's presence/awareness can verify that it has, indeed, occurred (as in "spooky behavior at a distance" - to coin an Einstein phrase)?

And finally;


I guess that I need to ask : How many 'inner energy levels' do you believe we have the ability to possess, and to be conscious of at one time?

By your reckoning, are there any of these, that shouldn't be objectified ("pointed at") ?

I don't generally use the concept of "soul". But, if I did, I would probably formulate, as you thought, "we are part of a soul", because I believe that we-here are part of something much more than we (most of us) think we are.

We can experience our larger (not in spatial terms, but hierarchically and as capability) nature not only while sleeping, but all of us do that, mostly unconsciously, while sleeping.

I don't subscribe to calling us "energies", but points of awareness that project into consciousness. To me "energies" has a physical connotation. Probably what you call "energies" I call "points of awareness".

I don't understand
Quote:
In other words; we are allowed to objectify (point to) our astral state, but not our soul state (as in the sense that an eye cannot see itself; that a finger cannot touch itself), perhaps?

Other realms aren't other "locations". "Location" has a spatial connotation specific to the physical realm. You experience them by projecting your awareness onto the consciousness dimension, like when dreaming. Excepting, when we talk about the after-life we-here are "dreamed" by our larger selves.

Again, I don't subscribe to the concept of "energy levels" when talking about non-physical. Also, I see me-here as part of a larger-me, so if you want, I am possessed by it, I-here don't posses anything there.

I don't understand
Quote:
By your reckoning, are there any of these, that shouldn't be objectified ("pointed at") ?
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #5  
Old 22-10-2020, 02:42 PM
Lord_Viskey Lord_Viskey is offline
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Please do not take this as a form of "grilling the repondant".
I have a sincere interest in looking at how everyone percieves these phenomenon;

But now for clarification sake, I must go through a "process of elimination" Invalan:
According to your last couple of posts:

1. You've never heard of soul flight (post #2; line 1)
2. further, you normally associate nothing to the term "soul" (post #4; line 1), unless it pertains to something "larger than the self alone" (post #4; line 6).
3. But, (apparently) for my sake, you speculate that it probably has to do with a dream state.

4. Astral "projection" can and does occur (post #2; lines 2& 3) -
5. But it is not a matter of "energy" -
6. In fact, the term "energy" can only be associated (exclusively, by your standards) to physical realm phenomena (post #4; line 3) -

7. which by elimination (comparatively speaking), must exclude any definition of "energy" being attached to the mental phenomena of (the following is what I ascribe to as "mind energy") :
a. an act of consciousness;
b. an act of will;
c. nor an act of desire

8. Which leads to my understanding you as saying that any astral state phenomena occurs as a "point of awareness" (post #4; line 3) -
9. without any "mind energy" being applied to attain this state (comparatively speaking).

10. Now, with a "point of awareness", not being in any "point of space or time" (post #4; line 5),
11. and it cannot be a location (time or space), must relegate this entire phenomenon off [to the reality] of it as being only a "quality" (of mind condition).


So, my questions are these :

1. Without the application of energy to attain astral travel, how does one attain any "quality" of being within a mental state that can be referred to as "a point of awareness" ?

2. If astral projection cannot be attained by the exertion of "energy", and it cannot be in any "location", what distinguishes one's ability to attain such a state of mind?

3. If there are no "road maps" to attain this state (it cannot be reached, nor "pointed to", as in a "location" in space-time & it cannot be accessed through the exertion of conscious energy), how does information transfer between one who can do it & one who cannot do it?

For everyone else who comes accross this post, I'd still like to know your opinions too, on the comparisons between "soul flight" & "astral projection".

Please join in. If the conversation gets too complicated, there's still private messages, aren't there?
__________________
What is Love ... ?
It is "The Wisdom for the Desire To Return To Purity."
quoted by : "Sophia Of God"
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witnessed by : "Alpha & Omega"
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  #6  
Old 22-10-2020, 08:03 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Viskey
Please do not take this as a form of "grilling the repondant".
I have a sincere interest in looking at how everyone percieves these phenomenon;

But now for clarification sake, I must go through a "process of elimination" Invalan:
According to your last couple of posts:

1. You've never heard of soul flight (post #2; line 1)
2. further, you normally associate nothing to the term "soul" (post #4; line 1), unless it pertains to something "larger than the self alone" (post #4; line 6).
3. But, (apparently) for my sake, you speculate that it probably has to do with a dream state.

4. Astral "projection" can and does occur (post #2; lines 2& 3) -
5. But it is not a matter of "energy" -
6. In fact, the term "energy" can only be associated (exclusively, by your standards) to physical realm phenomena (post #4; line 3) -

7. which by elimination (comparatively speaking), must exclude any definition of "energy" being attached to the mental phenomena of (the following is what I ascribe to as "mind energy") :
a. an act of consciousness;
b. an act of will;
c. nor an act of desire

8. Which leads to my understanding you as saying that any astral state phenomena occurs as a "point of awareness" (post #4; line 3) -
9. without any "mind energy" being applied to attain this state (comparatively speaking).

10. Now, with a "point of awareness", not being in any "point of space or time" (post #4; line 5),
11. and it cannot be a location (time or space), must relegate this entire phenomenon off [to the reality] of it as being only a "quality" (of mind condition).


So, my questions are these :

1. Without the application of energy to attain astral travel, how does one attain any "quality" of being within a mental state that can be referred to as "a point of awareness" ?

2. If astral projection cannot be attained by the exertion of "energy", and it cannot be in any "location", what distinguishes one's ability to attain such a state of mind?

3. If there are no "road maps" to attain this state (it cannot be reached, nor "pointed to", as in a "location" in space-time & it cannot be accessed through the exertion of conscious energy), how does information transfer between one who can do it & one who cannot do it?

For everyone else who comes accross this post, I'd still like to know your opinions too, on the comparisons between "soul flight" & "astral projection".

Please join in. If the conversation gets too complicated, there's still private messages, aren't there?

Not sure where you intend to go with this exchange, but I'll reply:

1. yes
2. yes
3. no; I don't make such association.
4. yes; I define it as projection of your awareness onto a non-physical plane that isn't your dream / imagination plane
5. yes
6. yes; this is how I use it
7. yes; I don't use the formulation "thought energy";
I also don't use "mental phenomena" either; a,b,c formulations seem a little awkward to me; I don't even understand what an "act of consciousness" means; "act of ..." seems like the "action as result of ..."; willing, desiring don't seem acts to me
8. I don't know what an "astral state phenomena" is; I call "point of awareness" exactly what the formulation suggests, no other interpretation; it is the basic element of individualization
9. as there is no "mind energy" ...; also I don't use "astral state" excepting as a place holder when talking to somebody and not caring about accuracies
10. not sure what you infer; the "point of awareness" is whatever incarnates into the physical
11. I don't understand the whole phrase; what is it about? what phenomenon? what quality? what is a "mind condition"? ...

1. There is no "travel" in astral travel. There isn't a mental state either. It is a change of focus of the "point of awareness" into another range of the consciousness.
2. Everybody has the ability to consciously change their focus of awareness, and everybody does it unconsciously all the time: imagination, daydreaming, rem- and non-rem-dreaming. This change can be gradual, continuous, or can be a step-change.
3. Not sure what you're asking. What transfer are you referring to? The space and time that we perceive are part of the physical plane only. Even on the physical plane they aren't the way we perceive them; we live a counterproductive misunderstanding of those concepts.

What is "soul"? What is "soul flight"? What is "astral"? What does "project" when "astral projecting"?

PS: Long and convoluted dialogue, so I haven't reviewed it, nor my post.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #7  
Old 23-10-2020, 01:05 PM
Lord_Viskey Lord_Viskey is offline
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thank you invalan for your input.

i was hoping to just ask “a few” understandable questions. apparently i strive at it with an invisible language barrier.

didn’t realize i was manifesting so many : “i don’t know what you’re saying” comments.

was not taking conversation anywhere - just inviting various reader’s to describe what they’ve achieved, in hopes of realizing, for myself, a distinction between their “soul flight” and/or “astral projection” experiences.

these are other people’s terminology - not mine.

i was just using terminology i am familiar with & attempting to have an “open mic night” about the subject matter.

that’s all this is about “in a nut shell.”

thanks again.
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  #8  
Old 23-10-2020, 07:23 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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That's why I asked:
Quote:
What is "soul"? What is "soul flight"? What is "astral"? What does "project" when "astral projecting"?
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #9  
Old 23-10-2020, 09:26 PM
Lord_Viskey Lord_Viskey is offline
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well. as you say in your own footer : “i don’t parrot others.”

i was striving for neutrality.... didn’t want to put words in others mouths so-to-speak.

i assume if terminology is foreign to the reader, then we cannot speak on same *“wave length” (as it were).

( * “wave length” : as a physical term used in a figurative sense - just as “energy”; “projection” & “point of...” were being used.
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