My insights about Duality and NON-Duality

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Dominik90

Hey everyone,
I had one of those rare insights that truly resonated with me. It may be shocking for some.

Duality and NON-Duality is just another duality.

What are you thoughts about it :) ?

From my perspective, I love to think intro trinities. In a relationship there is the male and female and the relationship. So it's a threesome trinity. There was and will never be a duality and only the limited physical mind creates the dualities and even non-dualities.

I'm guessing this has been mentioned in other posts or perhaps not. Are you familiar with the idea, Ekam advitîyam it means 'One without a Second.' This is a very popular term used to describe Advaita Vedanta. It suggests some kind of quatum leap doesn't it ? So the working out of 1 and 0 or a consecutive line of mathematical reasoning is transcended. Or the veils of a system fall away ?
The Trinitarian idea is a marvelous idea too, most popularly expressed, in the Holy Trinity of Father Son and Holy Spirit. It appears as you know yourself many times in all faiths as a symbol of protection and strength etc. However the idea of 'One without a Second' takes us into perhaps a magical realm or a quantum realm whereby something appears through a sequencer which is broken, stops or disappears ? Of course there are plenty of examples in our world whereby two substances are formed to form a new substance. A and B are added to come up with C but for me there seems to be some mysteriousness too when 'One without a Second' is used as a pointer. There is A then B...then God ..ok that's the limit of my dodgy reasoning and education. thanks for the opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I'm guessing this has been mentioned in other posts or perhaps not. Are you familiar with the idea, Ekam advitîyam it means 'One without a Second.' This is a very popular term used to describe Advaita Vedanta. It suggests some kind of quatum leap doesn't it ? So the working out of 1 and 0 or a consecutive line of mathematical reasoning is transcended. Or the veils of a system fall away ?
The Trinitarian idea is a marvelous idea too, most popularly expressed, in the Holy Trinity of Father Son and Holy Spirit. It appears as you know yourself many times in all faiths as a symbol of protection and strength etc. However the idea of 'One without a Second' takes us into perhaps a magical realm or a quantum realm whereby something appears through a sequencer which is broken, stops or disappears ? Of course there are plenty of examples in our world whereby two substances are formed to form a new substance. A and B are added to come up with C but for me there seems to be some mysteriousness too when 'One without a Second' is used as a pointer. There is A then B...then God ..ok that's the limit of my dodgy reasoning and education. thanks for the opportunity.

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I'll phrase it differently and provide an example. The rephrasing is "There is one example in our world whereby two 'fundamental' forces are found to be different expressions of one more 'fundamental' force.".

We have electromagnetism and the nuclear weak force. These appear as distinctly different 'fundamental' forces at the current energy level of the universe. Juice up the energy level enough (run inflation backwards) and what we find is in fact they are different expressions of the same underlying 'fundamental' force, and that's the electroweak force.

The reason I used quotes even for the more 'fundamental' electroweak force is it's further posited it too is but and appearance, along with the 'fundamental' nuclear strong force within an even more 'fundamental' force, GUT (Grand Unified Theory). And this too isn't the end as it's posited it too is but an expression, along with gravity, of an even more 'fundamental' force or TOE (Theory of Everything). Is that the end of the trail? Maybe the Unified Field? Pure Consciousness? I don't know.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

.. but an expression, along with gravity, of an even more 'fundamental' force or TOE (Theory of Everything). Is that the end of the trail? Maybe the Unified Field? Pure Consciousness? I don't know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orMtwOz6Db0

See Penrose's comments begiinning around 40:30 >> or even before that for better context. What his magic of consciousness, is non-computational and that non-computational 'beyond' is 'understanding' i.e. the mathematician has a set of rules to follow that he believes shows a proof but he can step back or others can view and question whether the rules are valid.

Fuller would have us believe that comprehension is even beyond understanding more complete and begins with no less than the 6 edges/chords/lines-of-relationship of a tetra{4}hedron.

In this latter scenario we may say that 'understanding' is analogous to 2D { area } and beyond that is 3D { volume } tetrahedron as beginning of 'comprehension'.

1D has no enclosure of space _____

2D encloses an areal space /\

3D enclose a volumetric space \Y/

Again I think of Jacob Bekenstiens black hole mathematics that led him to holograhic scenarios, that led him to state, that, ...."we appear to be 2D creatures having and illusion of 3D"...

and the most simple way Ive found to grasp how that is feasible is as follows.

\Y/ is birds-eye-view of a tetrahedron as a subdivided triangle ---yes the top line is missing cause I'm using texticonic characters---, and if the central vertex moves to one or other of the seemingly 2D subdivided plane,

we have 3D tetrahedronn via a warped 2D plane.

So the magic of consciousness, ---if not also greater holistic comprehension---, is the transistion of perpspective via motion to a another location beyond { outside of } the one where in to step back and look at the greater picture.

Intellect is the ability to conceptually place ourselves outside of conceptually finite Universe, as if we are a God , looking back in upon a finite Universe we hold within our finite hands.

Again, this magic Metaphysical-1, intellect of understanding or comprehension, is what Penrose believes is beyond computational.

..........................................Space( *) i (* )Space............................

The Cosmic Trinity Outline is ;

1} Metaphysical-1 { spiri-1 }, mind/intellect/concept,

--------------conceptual line-of-demarcation----------------

2} Metaphysical-2, macro-infinite non-occupied space ......and is non-integral---,

3} finite, occupied Space Uni-V-erse --integral set of integrity spirit-2, 3 and 4-----

Now we have four items of consideration,---Spirit-1, Spirit-2, Spirit-3 and Spirit-4--- tho one is not a Space { Spirit-1 } but is accessed via occupied Space biologics

At three points/nodes/dots .... we have three lines-of-relationship.

At four points/dots/vertexes **** we have quantum{ ? } leap from 3 { /\ } to 6 { \Y/ } lines-of-relationship ---skipping 4 and 5-- ergo,

1 triangle plus 1 triangle = 4 triangles and 3 triangles, and 3 angles plus 3 angles = 12 angles ergo synergetic resultant

[r6r6]

Spirit-1 {intellect },................................ i { ego to whatever degree }
---conceptual line-of-demarcation---------------------------Spirit-2 { Fermions and bosons }..............quantised occupied space is discrete reality we observe
Spirit-3 { Gravity }................................non-quantiesd occupied Space is a continuum as Dark Energy
Spirit-4 { Dark energy }........................non-quantised occupied Space is a continuum as Gravity

Gravity ( ) is the ultra-micro outer positive curvature geodesic ( ) of the torus tube, that we do not ever see.
-
-
Reality /\/\/ inside the tube is what we observe and that includes a myriad set of overlappging and interfering tori.
-
-
Dark Energy is the ultra-micro inner negative curvatures geodesic )( of the torus tube, that we do not ever see.

Here below is another way to view the above;

-
-
0............6............12.............18....... ....24..........30....18 ....36 { 18 positive and 18 negative kinds of quark }
........3...........9.............15.............2 1...........27..........33...........and bottom half of sine-wave pattern of observed existence
-
-
What we also dont see above, is the line-of-relationship between Gravity or Dark Energy to inside-the-tube reality, but we presume it occurs and peak of positive and negative geodesic curvature of Space

Again I think of Jacob Bekenstiens black hole mathematics that led him to holographic scenarios, that led him to state, that, ...."we appear to be 2D creatures having an illusion of 3D"...

and the most simple way Ive found to grasp how that is feasible is as follows.

\Y/ is birds-eye-view of a tetrahedron as a subdivided triangle ---yes the top line is missing cause I'm using texticonic characters---, and if the central vertex moves to one or other of the seemingly 2D subdivided plane,

we have 3D tetrahedronn via a warped 2D plane.

Intellect { i } is the ability to conceptually place ourselves outside of conceptually finite Universe, as if we are a God , looking back in upon a finite Universe, that , we hold within our finite conceptual hands.

Again, this magic Metaphysical-1, intellect of understanding or comprehension, is what Penrose believes is beyond computational.

1 + 1 = 4 and 3 + 3 = 12 is synergetic magic, but the edges/chords/lines-of-relationship value does not change.

Intellect ---as an inviolate absolute truth--- also does not change.
Can say that chords/edges of tetrahedron are intellect?
Can we say a tetrahedron is beginning of comprehension?
Can we say a triangle is understanding?

There is no doubt intellect exists. The question becomes how can it be a line-of-relationship to our observed reality.

..........................................Space( * ) i ( * )Space............................

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'll phrase it differently and provide an example. The rephrasing is "There is one example in our world whereby two 'fundamental' forces are found to be different expressions of one more 'fundamental' force.".

We have electromagnetism and the nuclear weak force. These appear as distinctly different 'fundamental' forces at the current energy level of the universe. Juice up the energy level enough (run inflation backwards) and what we find is in fact they are different expressions of the same underlying 'fundamental' force, and that's the electroweak force.

The reason I used quotes even for the more 'fundamental' electroweak force is it's further posited it too is but and appearance, along with the 'fundamental' nuclear strong force within an even more 'fundamental' force, GUT (Grand Unified Theory). And this too isn't the end as it's posited it too is but an expression, along with gravity, of an even more 'fundamental' force or TOE (Theory of Everything). Is that the end of the trail? Maybe the Unified Field? Pure Consciousness? I don't know.

Yes interesting examples. I am sure you find this happening in mechanics too. Centripetal and Centrifugal force appear to be the same force viewed from different perspectives. However my real curiosity was to do with some kind of 'leap'. They say this type of apparent randomness has happened in Quantum Physics with the now popular ..wave and particle experiment and the influence of observer if any upon the observed. My point was that there are phenomena in the 'spiritual life' which are not explicable or measurable using scientific paradigms ? Not sure how true that is though. So the paradigm of cause and effect predicts outcomes. But if you clearly observe a supernatural event you will have a hard time fitting it snugly into any paradigm lol...Scientific Spiritual or otherwise. So my postulation was ...that there exists in our world ...non sequential events ..which go something like ...1+2 =7... they have no real corollary so far in scientific paradigms. Anyway my knowledge is very limited when it comes to science..i think you are suggesting that there are alternative interpretations of what is accepted as common reality by quantum physics etc.? Anyway forgive my lack of scientific study. Joe

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[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

non-computational

A great phrase.

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Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Yes interesting examples. I am sure you find this happening in mechanics too. Centripetal and Centrifugal force appear to be the same force viewed from different perspectives. However my real curiosity was to do with some kind of 'leap'. They say this type of apparent randomness has happened in Quantum Physics with the now popular ..wave and particle experiment and the influence of observer if any upon the observed. My point was that there are phenomena in the 'spiritual life' which are not explicable or measurable using scientific paradigms ? Not sure how true that is though. So the paradigm of cause and effect predicts outcomes. But if you clearly observe a supernatural event you will have a hard time fitting it snugly into any paradigm lol...Scientific Spiritual or otherwise. So my postulation was ...that there exists in our world ...non sequential events ..which go something like ...1+2 =7... they have no real corollary so far in scientific paradigms. Anyway my knowledge is very limited when it comes to science..i think you are suggesting that there are alternative interpretations of what is accepted as common reality by quantum physics etc.? Anyway forgive my lack of scientific study. Joe

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I'm certain we all experience phenomena that are seemingly outside the scientific paradigm. I'm also certain many are coincidence, wishful thinking, etc... and I'm equally certain a select few are the real deal.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'm certain we all experience phenomena that are seemingly outside the scientific paradigm. I'm also certain many are coincidence, wishful thinking, etc... and I'm equally certain a select few are the real deal.

Most definitely. I was watching a documentary recently on Surgeons who try innovative operations. Watching the bodies of men and women being cut open made me realise in a very stark way that we couldn't actually be our 'bodies'. Sounds a bit weird i know but kind of reminded me of the Buddhist practices of entering burning grounds and graveyards to confront the reality of a 'dead body'.
Think I'm trying to return to the subject on duality and non duality ...Hey I digress. I must also acknowledge how interesting it was to see how these surgeons identify mininscule nerves etc...and know their function with complete certainty, amazing. Joe.

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[r6r6]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

........................................Space( * ) i ( * )Space............................

The inverting-outverting \/ lines-of-relationship between peak of positive geodesic and sine-wave of reality 0, 3, 6, 9 etc peak curvature of negative geodesic and physical reality are not observed only intuited to exist.

.................Space(>*<) i (>*<)Space.......................

But those two lines-of-relationship even tho and angular trajectory, are so very close together they are seemingly more like this incoming || outgoing.

I'm focusing in on these lines-of-relationship to see if they are the basis of consciousness that accesses intellect and consciousness that does not access intellect.

All occupied Space { Gravity and Dark Energy } and physical reality occupied space are tainted, by various kinds of motion ex spin, torque, precession, inside-out, expansion-contraction, orbit, and,

in some cases color { red, green, purple etc frequencies of EMRadiation and the molecular pattern, or as,

smell { olfactory }, sound { auditory }, taste, mass, speed{ velocity }.

So Gravity and Dark Energy and ping sine-wave reality, and reality sends the PING back out from whence it came. This is reminiscent of what we here about virtual particles popping into and of existence so quickly, that we do not observe them.

The only evidence for virtual particles is indirectly by effects we observe real particles { particles we observe }.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

A great phrase.

Well I agree with Penrose in some ways and not in others. ---ex his infinity ideas are ok and some what as Fuller views ultra-micro infinite subdivision of finite Universe---- I just watched 2nd half of the video link I posted previously.



And to be clear he is clear Penrose doesnt know what consciousness is or correctly defined or even how to correctly define what'understanding' is, however, he feels most comfortable talking about the word 'understanding' which can only occur via our awareness.


Simply put by Fuller twoness > awareness > consciousness and some biologics gain greater or lesser degrees of access to Metaphysical-1, intellect



Spirit-1 {intellect },................................ i { ego to whatever degree }
---conceptual line-of-demarcation---------------------------

Spirit-2 { Fermions and bosons }....quantised occupied space is discrete reality we observe
Spirit-3 { Gravity }................................non-quantiesd occupied Space is a continuum as Dark Energy
Spirit-4 { Dark energy }........................non-quantised occupied



Space ( )( ) ---not time-- is a continuum asGravity and Dark Energyi.e. their both the differrent geometries of the same spiral loop the goes on to define a torus.


Time /\/\/ is resultant sine-wave pattern of the PINGs! from the inversions-outversions incoming||outgoing at peak of Gravitational and Dark Energy geodesic curvature towards inside center of tube.



His conformal Cyclic Universe I like, but he is much more comfort using the word infinity with photons { EMR } than I am. I see them as finite occupied space quanta.


If youve not seen his other video on it, he shows info evidence from past eon of our Universe, existent in background micro-radiation.