Fem & Masc equality

[SmallVoice]

Originally Posted by inavalan

If you believe that, then that's what you'll experience, because the reality you experience is the consequence of your beliefs, emotions and expectations.

Unfortunately, it's because of what I have observed and experienced that I came to this conclusion. It was a broad generalization of course, but how can one discuss such broad topics as masculinity and femininity without generalizing to a certain degree? Clearly, I didn't literally mean "no one" because that would include myself and the OP in that statement and neither of us devalue femininity.

The only people I see openly promoting the virtues of femininity are people in certain Christian circles who tell women to embrace their femininity as a form of submission to men. Otherwise, the popular media, social media, and much of the surrounding culture pushes women heavily towards more "masculine" attitudes, beliefs, and pursuits. The message from all these institutions is clear: femininity makes you weak; masculinity makes you strong.

[SmallVoice]

Originally Posted by FairyCrystal

True, and it's going to take time even though the change has already started... It is happening but I think it has been the hardest on the female forerunners who had to be the spearhead to break through masculine walls and rules and ways of doing things.

Oh yeah, I definitely think it's starting to happen. This generation coming up seems far more sensitive and humanitarian than the generations proceeding it and questions a lot of what we've taken for granted as "the way things are." I am hopeful that they will slowly but surely begin to balance things out.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by SmallVoice

The only people I see openly promoting the virtues of femininity are people in certain Christian circles who tell women to embrace their femininity as a form of submission to men. Otherwise, the popular media, social media, and much of the surrounding culture pushes women heavily towards more "masculine" attitudes, beliefs, and pursuits. The message from all these institutions is clear: femininity makes you weak; masculinity makes you strong.

What are these ''masculine'' attitudes, beliefs, and pursuits?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by SmallVoice

So many women react to this by trying to prove that they are "just as good as men" by partaking in various manifestations of "masculinity," i.g. pursuing a high-powered career, climbing the corporate ladder, being good at/interested more physical activities, pursuing casual sex, viewing family and children as a hinderance to personal growth, valuing rationality over emotion, etc. Of course, these are all very shallow, immature manifestations of masculinity,

Personally I don't think much of that is ''very shallow''. Lets go through them a bit...

''pursuing a high-powered career and climbing the corporate ladder'' ~ People can have a passion for their work, and wanna get better at it, and ideally also increase income as that makes life easier cause you can invest more in a house, car, holidays, hobbies, etc.

''being good at/interested more physical activities'' ~ Sounds pretty healthy to me. Doing physical activity can make us healthier and happier. I see plenty of women at the gym, are they being 'masculine'?

''pursuing casual sex'' ~ If both sides agree that it's gonna be casual then what's the issue? It is between them. Besides, the vast majority of people settle down.

''viewing family and children as a hindrance to personal growth'' ~ Depends on the individual. No good or wrong here.

''valuing rationality over emotion'' ~ We all have both in us, and depending on the situation one may be preferable over the other, however that does not mean the other is discarded. Indeed, we can make choices that are rational and also emotionally sound. Men can be very emotional but they may not show it as likely as women, and women can be very calculative and rational.

As a final point, I don't see how it helps women (and men) to reduce these attributes to 'femininity' or 'masculinity'.

[Redchic12]

Well said Altair. Totally agree.

[FairyCrystal]

Originally Posted by Altair

Personally I don't think much of that is ''very shallow''. Lets go through them a bit...

It's not about right or wrong (you mention that regularly in your reply). It's about what's the innate feminine & masculine, and being able to be and live that way. And to be respected, valued, cherished for being that way.
As for shallow... many things arean expression of the shallow masculine. Much what we see and live and have to deal with is still the masculine and most of this isn't the healthy, balanced masculine.
Like no one really knows what the healthy, balanced, empowered feminine used to be like since it's been quite thoroughly trashed, we also have to re-invent the healthy empowered & balanced masculine. Since these are 2 parts of a whole, closely related like Yin & Yang, if one is totally out of whack the other cannot be balanced either.
Hence much of the masculine, which is still 'ruling', is shallow.

Originally Posted by Altair

''pursuing a high-powered career and climbing the corporate ladder'' ~ People can have a passion for their work, and wanna get better at it, and ideally also increase income as that makes life easier cause you can invest more in a house, car, holidays, hobbies, etc.

To need and put value to status, owning a (preferably nice) car, house etc. is a masculine trait, not a feminine one! Having such things make a man feel good, in a similar way that sisterhood makes a woman feel good.
The way to obtain these good is by working very hard, unless you're born into a rich family, and that puts you right smack in the competition race, having to get results, be good/better, perform, and with all that comes a dose of stress too. Possibly less so for men as in a sense it comes more natural to them to be competitive.
Mind you, I'm not saying women aren't or cannot be competitive. But it's not the natural, innate way of being for women. The fact many are is a direct result of the masculine energy society & workplaces etc.

Originally Posted by Altair

''being good at/interested more physical activities'' ~ Sounds pretty healthy to me. Doing physical activity can make us healthier and happier. I see plenty of women at the gym, are they being 'masculine'?

The fact you see women at the gym doesn't mean that this is an innate feminine expression.
The entire emphasis Americans put on sports is rather weird as it is, and needing to have a strong muscular body, to only be regarded as attractive and good enough when you as a woman fit a certain mould is utterly masculine and a very unhealthy expression of it at that, for women at least.
For men this is different. They need to be physically fit, train, work out etc. which in a way is a replacement of being a good hunter, provider, protector, warrior etc. etc. In other words, it relates to being the Alpha male who would get the best woman, housing, be the leader of the tribe and so on.
As such it is not a natural innate expression of the feminine principle.

Originally Posted by Altair

''pursuing casual sex'' ~ If both sides agree that it's gonna be casual then what's the issue? It is between them. Besides, the vast majority of people settle down.

Again, the point isn't that it's an issue, right or wrong. It's about "Is it feminine or masculine to do/have/be?" And pursuing casual sex isn't. Man is supposed to do the pursuing. naturally woman wouldn't pursue casual sex as it would mean that she'd be left on her own with offspring of that encounter. No one to fend for her and the baby which put both at a very high risk of not surviving and/or the woman having to abandon the child in order to survive herself, which goes against all primal instincts.
This is where the emotional bonding between man & woman comes into play before and during intercourse, which essentially is only for procreation but made to feel good so our species would survive. The bonding would make the man stick around during pregnancy and after the birth etc. so the woman & baby weren't left defenseless.

As such pursuing casual sex is not a natural innate feminine expression.
Doesn't make it wrong, that's not the point. Point could be: how do we fit a masculine expression into being truly feminine? Is that possible? What are the results?
Think about this: most men do not fall for a woman romantically when they didn't pursue her! Men want/need to conquer and then get his 'prize': the woman he fought for.
This has all changed over the last decades with women doing much of this, or being available for sex only. The fastest way to end up on a man's 'friend-zone' or 'NSA' list is to do that!
Then wonder why millions are out there, single, not able to find a partner that will commit to them...

Originally Posted by Altair

''viewing family and children as a hindrance to personal growth'' ~ Depends on the individual. No good or wrong here.

Won't go into it, getting to long, but again, not about right or wrong... and this is again an unhealthy expression of masculine energy.

Originally Posted by Altair

''valuing rationality over emotion'' ~ ... Men can be very emotional but they may not show it as likely as women, and women can be very calculative and rational.

Not about whether men can or can't have emotions, but about what is valued. And again the statement was correct. Not going to explain as it's already lengthy.

Originally Posted by Altair

As a final point, I don't see how it helps women (and men) to reduce these attributes to 'femininity' or 'masculinity'.

Until you have a full understanding of it all, how it works, how far the reach and impact is of these in an individual and society you won't see that.
And once you do understand and then begin to be/do/have/behave/feel the way an empowered & balanced resp. woman or man is you will notice that it makes 100% difference to everything in life.
And I do mean everything. The way you walk, stand, talk, interact & socialise, are on the workfloor, are as a partner & friend, how you feel, act & react, deal with problems etc. etc. And even health.
It is the biggest eye-opener you can ever get in your life.
You will feel so unbelievably good, for the first time in your life in that way, as you finally feel like yourself.
In my case it was a huge sigh of relief not having to carry the masculine load anymore. Like a block of concrete dropped of my shoulders and I could finally breathe and be me, all woman.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by FairyCrystal

Won't go into it, getting to long, but again, not about right or wrong... and this is again an unhealthy expression of masculine energy.

Originally Posted by FairyCrystal

Until you have a full understanding of it all, how it works, how far the reach and impact is of these in an individual and society you won't see that.

Right, okay..
We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by FairyCrystal

To need and put value to status, owning a (preferably nice) car, house etc. is a masculine trait, not a feminine one! Having such things make a man feel good, in a similar way that sisterhood makes a woman feel good.

Seems to be some stereotyping going on with labelling such things as masculine and feminine traits.

No doubt plenty of women enjoy status and all the outer trappings of a nice house and car etc, just as plenty of men are indifferent to these things.

Are all women really into sisterhood? And if sisterhood makes a woman feel good then surely brotherhood makes a man feel good.

Originally Posted by FairyCrystal

...to only be regarded as attractive and good enough when you as a woman fit a certain mould is utterly masculine and a very unhealthy expression of it at that, for women at least. For men this is different. They need to be physically fit, train, work out etc. which in a way is a replacement of being a good hunter, provider, protector, warrior etc. etc.

The same stereotyping is evident in these comments. If women feel pressurised to look a certain way they cannot blame it all on men. Do women never judge the appearance of other women?

For me, these matters are an issue of consciousness, not gender. Placing so much importance on physical possessions or physical appearance reflects a certain level of consciousness, whether we happen to be occupying a male or female body.

Peace

[Unseeking Seeker]

Considering that we have both male and female polarities within, which energetically require to be balanced* (*this is in fact, a definite part of the kundalini activation process after ascent from root to crown), we are complete only in a state of dynamic equilibrium.

On an overall basis, we may say the male aspect is more in ego or head whereas the female aspect is attuned to love or in heart. Hence daughters being more affectionate toward parents than sons (not always but mostly).

Shiva (male) representing totality, the template or energy held in stillness and Shakti (female) being the kinetic energy that enlivens the vessel, both kinetic and potential energies require each other, are indivisible from each other. Shakti cannot be without Shiva and Shiva is inert without Shakti, both one in Hirayangarbha* (*cosmic egg) ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiranyagarbha?wprov=sfti1

If we go through a PLR session, we are likely to learn that in past lives we have taken up both male and female forms, depending upon what our soul wishes to learn.

[Redchic12]

IAMTHAT. you state…

For me, these matters are an issue of consciousness, not gender. Placing so much importance on physical possessions or physical appearance reflects a certain level of consciousness, whether we happen to be occupying a male or female body.

Yes I agree with this statement.

I also feel that females judge other females sometimes more harsher than men do, in my experience.