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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

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  #121  
Old 27-09-2020, 07:12 PM
janielee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Let me try to tie this back to your thread about Work without Motivation.

The ego is not killed. It cannot be killed. It's necessary to function and survive within the multiplicity. However one can detach from its motivations (cravings and aversions) and then both action and inaction do not generate Karma.

Of course ego cannot be allowed to run amok. It must be constrained within moral and ethical standards. One must do what one must do and one must not do what one must not do, regardless of ego's desires. If one identifies with ego this can be difficult, if not impossible. If one identifies with Consciousness, Existence, Brahman, God, Higher Power then the possibility of true free will exists and ego is then but a tool of nature in service of Consciousness, Existence, Brahman, God, Higher Power.

These are just my personal opinions.

I believe that ego can be gone - completely. One still functions but with and through the Will of God only. One is still oneself however, but wholly oneself and Always with God/Wholeness/Truth/Reality.

One functions in and as an agent of God, in the truest, most holy sense.

(first is last, last is first)
(Blessed are the peacemakers; the meek shall inherit the Earth)


The ego, in hearing this is terrified, scared. Some spend lifetimes in this stage - arguing, debating, logic'ing it. Anything but to die.

("Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All.")


But yes, it can absolutely be done. Requires sacrifice, commitment, possibly prayer and probably a lot of meditation, silence practices, contemplative practices.

I believe for the Saints that they reside in inner silence. Inner silence is inner silence. It can only be achieved with deep, ongoing prayer and meditation (I believe)

It a situation when God (we use this word for conversational purposes but can be any number of words) is now the dominant force and not the lower, separative, ego.

In this positon, One will sense the changes. It's not intellectual. Remember above all! It's NOT intellectual. One senses a shift in consciousness. God consciousness. Someone mentioned separative; God sees All as One. not as a theory or a belief or a voice whispering, no God is silent.

You and others have had moments of seeing/awakening; these are just moments. Invitations to move along, offerings of what is ahead. We are never apart from "god" (or "Buddha" or Reality) but at the same time we are ("paupers") until we LIVE that reality - Then we are truly at home again in and with That Which Is Love True Love. A love that is mostly un-understood. Not known but wants to be born.

{Meister Eckhart - "God is asking to be born through You" approximately}


There are many paths to this One Truth, but it's essential that you work the Path you are on, that you have chosen. What is most important is that God is waiting for You.

JL
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  #122  
Old 28-09-2020, 06:56 AM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Let me try to tie this back to your thread about Work without Motivation.

The ego is not killed. It cannot be killed. It's necessary to function and survive within the multiplicity. However one can detach from its motivations (cravings and aversions) and then both action and inaction do not generate Karma.
I worked in mental health and have seen first-hand what happens when people's ego 'collapse', it's not pretty and it leaves them anything from dazed and confused to being spoon-fed. Anyone who chooses to believe their own opinions over fact and experience, well that's their own egos gone out of control. People can redefine the ego for their own agenda until the cows come home, the facts remain.

The supposed ego that's talked about generally on these forums IS the ego run amok, when people ignore psychology then redefine the ego and psychoanalyse to suit their own egotistical agenda then....... Intentional ignorance is still ignorance, nescience is excusable though and if Spiritual people think that they are no longer affected by psychology then.....

With true ego-death - again the 'real thing' and not the egotistical nonsense that's often spouted in here - the ego and it's 'contents' 'collapses' into the self. It usually happens after an emotionally traumatic experience and again leaves the person dysfunctional for a time.

Yes, there IS a balanced, civilised discussion concerning the psychological - both Freudian and Jungian - ego as relating to Spirituality but it's not going to happen when people need a scapegoat - which is all the Spiritual ego is. And if the Spiritual ego is different to the psychological one then Spiritual people shouldn't use a Latin word for 'I' that didn't come into being until thousands of years after Sanskrit. Both Maya and Ahamkara apply, and Jung was well-versed in Eastern religion/philosophy and based his model on those, so to say that the Jungian ego is not relevent to the Spiritual Adept is the kind of irony I enjoy so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
If one identifies with Consciousness, Existence, Brahman, God, Higher Power then the possibility of true free will exists and ego is then but a tool of nature in service of Consciousness, Existence, Brahman, God, Higher Power.
This can't happen without an ego and it's the ego that 'thinks' it is in the service of Consciousness, Existence..... etc. The ego considers itself Spiritual - Spiritual and/or in service to being the 'contents' of the ego. The ego identifies with the perceptual status Spirituality can bring in the same way it identifies with the status wealth can bring - the term 'wealth of knowledge' applies to both egotistical rich people and egotistical Spiritual people.

The easiest way to 'test' for a Spiritual ego or not is to ask "What do I get out of Spirituality?"

Last edited by Greenslade : 28-09-2020 at 09:46 AM.
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  #123  
Old 28-09-2020, 07:24 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Yes, there IS a balanced, civilised discussion concerning the psychological - both Freudian and Jungian - ego as relating to Spirituality but it's not going to happen when people need a scapegoat - which is all the Spiritual ego is. And if the Spiritual ego is different to the psychological one then Spiritual people shouldn't use a Latin word for 'I' that didn't come into being until thousands of years after Sanskrit. Both Maya and Ahamkara apply, and Jung was well-versed in Eastern religion/philosophy and based his model on those, so to say that the Jungian ego is not relevent to the Spiritual Adept is the kind of irony I enjoy so much.


As discussed a thousand times, it ALL MIND - Psychologically speaking . Spirituality as a concept derives through MINDFULNESS .

Then this mindfulness through psychological analysis and interpretation negates the very same process to elevate a spiritual understanding of the ego

You literally can't make it up and the irony cannot be anymore present than it is in these instances .


x daz x
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  #124  
Old 28-09-2020, 09:52 AM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
These are just my personal opinions.

I believe that ego can be gone - completely. One still functions but with and through the Will of God only. One is still oneself however, but wholly oneself and Always with God/Wholeness/Truth/Reality.
Only what one defines as the ego can be gone, and the mainstream ego is little more than a scapegoat to point a finger at to make people feel better, and the objectification of one's judgements and prejudices. Often what is supposed to be the ego-death that is talked about in here is even more egotistical.
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  #125  
Old 28-09-2020, 01:48 PM
Lorelyen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
These are just my personal opinions.

I believe that ego can be gone - completely. One still functions but with and through the Will of God only. One is still oneself however, but wholly oneself and Always with God/Wholeness/Truth/Reality.
Don't you see though that that's contradictory? If the ego can be gone completely how can one still be oneself? Or are you saying the self isn't individual? Maybe corresponds to some monotheistic principal or principle?

Besides, to the gnostic the god is within one so will be influencing their "I am." God is filtering through a lot of 'past experience' processing to the you at the front reacting to the situation you happen to be in.

Quote:
It a situation when God (we use this word for conversational purposes but can be any number of words) is now the dominant force and not the lower, separative, ego.

In this positon, One will sense the changes....
...It's NOT intellectual. One senses a shift in consciousness. God consciousness.

And you see you've done it again. How can one sense the changes without an ego or at best a self? What's doing the sensing? Are you suggesting the dominant force itself is sensing the change? (Pse correct me if so.)


Quote:

There are many paths to this One Truth, but it's essential that you work the Path you are on, that you have chosen. What is most important is that God is waiting for You.

JL
She's there already. Truth is unique to us individually. Whether there are many paths to it I don't know. I suspect there are several.
.
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  #126  
Old 28-09-2020, 03:23 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
Is an ego beyond individual name /form /body identification, identified and merged with Cosmic soul / God wrong / unhealthy ?
Ego is the identification with name/form/body. How can that be merged with God-consciousness, if it is inherently separative from God-consciousness, as it represents the exclusive cognition of name/form/body?
Quote:
Most spiritual practices talk of killing ego. But that's just ego associated and limited with name/body/form identification . Where scholars talk / mean killing ego , they mean to break these narrow barriers of name/body/form.
Same answer applies. It isn’t that ego is “associated with” limited name/form/body - IT IS the very cognition of those as the exclusive being.
Quote:
In technical sense ego still remains and it has transformed to sublime level and grown in divine pattern.
No , not true since as a cognition it doesn’t remain, but is annihilated or surpassed as a requisite to realization. Otherwise please tell me how or what transformation takes place that maintains ego-cognition and at the same time changes it into the awareness of Self as One Being, since it is by nature incapable of that awareness.
Quote:
I think this observation of yours stems from Buddhist word 'Nirvana' (or Nibbana so to say in popular lingo) - one who removed layers of mind/body/form associations and moved to emptiness (wrt mind/body/form associations ) and feels the cosmic consciousness and feels associated with it.
Association implies connection of different “things”. Removing the ego cognition allows the gnostic cognition to be more available. This is why people meditate.
Nirvana is the extinction of the entire human being, the focal consciousness withdraws fully, is extracted and no longer participates in Life. Nirvikalpa samadhi is a precursor to that finality where the person “returns” from Nirvana consciousness, but the Nirvana consciousness is then not operative in the life - it is a temporary state in meditation.
Quote:
For the same process , Gita uses the word Brahma Nirvana ie merging with cosmic soul breaking all barriers of mind body name form associations . Whatever words we may use , the process and goal looks similar and ego still remains albeit in altogether new rejuvenated form.
It may look similar if there is a conflation of ego with soul/jivatman/purusha which seems to be the common error. But in that case ego doesn’t remain.
Rejuvenation? Does the ego go to a spa and get massages and herbal remedies?
In the case of the prescriptions of the Gita, the differentiated individual is consciously one with the all and experiences consciousness as an instrumental aspect of the Self as One Being which it IS as Identity - which is how God see ego in its qualified conditional status - as simply aspect of Self. It knows all differentiations in any multiplicity as Self. That is why Krishna said, “ Oh Arjuna, become a mere instrument.”, meaning a conscious instrument of the All One Supreme Being.
If ego persisted it would simply be the maintenance of the false instrument of self, as divided from - not AS God-Self - thereby exercising the ignorant limitation of the ego as a separate being with a “personal will”, an ignorant limited separative cognition which is a falsehood. Otherwise we would be born realized that we are God.


~ J
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  #127  
Old 28-09-2020, 08:56 PM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
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He sat in the room and finished the mantra with his teacher. As the last echo faded. He sat up proud and content. A thought came to him. `Master, what is the ego`? He asked.
the teacher smile and said `Do you remember the last three conversations you had debating spiritual issues with your fellow students, before coming in here to say mantra`s`?
He thought for a moment, and confidently said `yes`!
the teacher nodded his head and said. `Every word you said was a statement from your ego`.
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  #128  
Old 28-09-2020, 11:22 PM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteyzen
He sat in the room and finished the mantra with his teacher. As the last echo faded. He sat up proud and content. A thought came to him. `Master, what is the ego`? He asked.
the teacher smile and said `Do you remember the last three conversations you had debating spiritual issues with your fellow students, before coming in here to say mantra`s`?
He thought for a moment, and confidently said `yes`!
the teacher nodded his head and said. `Every word you said was a statement from your ego`.


I was thinking that thought looking into this thread yesterday. lol.

Then you came with a breath of fresh air, so I thought that’s worthy of a comment..well it’s not really a comment but more a passing thought. You ignited it again for my response.. hehe


(Observation without need to interject as to who’s right, who’s wrong, what’s ego, how does it work really only shows how the one involved in those discussions, plays on his own fear to surrender to being incorrect, or even the need to overcome his/her own contradictions.. the list goes on. ‘I know’ therefore I’ll never ‘not know’ MYSELF as anything more than ‘I Know’.. So as I self reflect on my own expression right now, I ask myself. How do I feel in all these things I’m relating myself and others as right now? Am I clear? Do I feel the need to protect and fight for front row of my view? Is that my ego taking front seat perhaps? And does that really move one beyond ego as the ‘driver’ ?..What can lead from the self when it’s aware of itself truthfully in this way? Is it the ego? Or something else.? )
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Your trials did not come to punish you, but to awaken you - to make you realise that you are a part of Spirit and that just behind the sparks of your life is
the Flame of Infinity.
Paramahansa Yogananda
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  #129  
Old 28-09-2020, 11:34 PM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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...............
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Your trials did not come to punish you, but to awaken you - to make you realise that you are a part of Spirit and that just behind the sparks of your life is
the Flame of Infinity.
Paramahansa Yogananda
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  #130  
Old 29-09-2020, 12:09 AM
Kioma
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Jyotir's point is proven with a simple mental experiment.

Imagine that you have psychic powers. Imagine that you are able to tap into another's awareness, and that with effort you can tap into the awareness of anything, sentient or not.

We will start small. Imagine that you meet someone on the street. You start concentrating, and his thoughts become your thoughts. His memories become your memories. His consciousness becomes your consciousness.

Are you still in there? Of course! You are still you - or are you? The human consciousness is pretty crowded with the awareness of one life, but now you have two. At that level of awareness, you now feel split. Are you you, or are you him? Actual complete awareness of this other consciousness has doubled your consciousness - but now your self identity is only half, because you have two lives in your consciousness.

But we don't stop there. You see another person, and again you concentrate. Suddenly you have tripled your consciousness - and your self identity is cut down to one third.

But you keep going. Your consciousness, your openness, your awareness is soaring! You've never felt anything like it! It's incredible! A sudden understanding of humanity pours through you as your consciousness expands without bounds! It is incredibly freeing! But at the same time, with every new consciousness that enters yours, you feel less and less personal thoughts about it all - you feel reflections from every consciousness, from the synthesis as a whole.

And still you go on, until you have tapped into every life on earth - and still you go on. You tap into the consciousness of the animals of the land and of the sea, and the plants and the trees and the clouds and finally the very planet itself, thinking it's rocky thoughts as it spirals round and round the sun, and then the sun, and the planets, and the void, and the entire universe.

Now you have total omniscience - and there is no individuality. How could there be? There is only... everything.

This is the trade-off. This is the price - - and the reward.
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