Q: What does "no karma can lead to Jnana" mean?

[eputkonen]

A: No personal action (current or past) will result in enlightenment. Karma is action and consequences of action, but enlightenment is more of a "grace" and is not caused by anything a "me" does.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

A: No personal action (current or past) will result in enlightenment. Karma is action and consequences of action, but enlightenment is more of a "grace" and is not caused by anything a "me" does.

Definitely enlightenment is a grace but that comes only to the person in action. Even simple sitting still or meditation is some sort of action .

"No pains no gains" is eternal in all aspects of life including spiritual development.

"Me' has to evolve a lot if there are lots of attachments to it.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Definitely enlightenment is a grace but that comes only to the person in action. Even simple sitting still or meditation is some sort of action. ... "Me' has to evolve a lot if there are lots of attachments to it.

This makes sense. The realisation of the Self may be beyond all action, but I suspect that the grace which allows this realisation will not happen if the individual makes no effort, whether in this incarnation or other incarnations.

It seems as if the key to this realisation is complete surrender, but the "me" has to go through a lot of learning to reach the point of surrender.

Peace

[iamthat]

A further thought. Many of the current batch of Neo-Advaitist teachers may say that no action can lead to enlightenment and there is nothing to do, and yet looking at their own histories they seem to have done all sorts of practices before attaining realisation. Would they have attained whatever they have realised without having done those practices? Who knows!

Peace

[pixiedust]

Silly statement and beliefs IMO

[Gem]

It's a bit of Eastern philosophy which talks about how one is liberated from their kammic circle. Even though there is consequence, kamma, rather than being chronologically linear, is more like a circular mentality which entails psychological reactions inciting volition that manifests experience to which you react, inciting volition and around it goes.

'Kamma', though literally meaning action, refers to the volition, which can be thought of as any urge to move the mind, and cessation of kamma is like a shift from willfulness to willingness.

People are plagued by reactivity, which means they always desire something and avoid anything uncomfortable. Within reactivity is 'me, my, mine, I', and the dynamic tension between desire and aversion continually perpetuates self-reference or the illusion of myself.

In that sense, the cessation of kamma is the cessation of volition which is brought about by ceasing to react. In practice that means stop trying to make it as you want it to be (willful) and see it as it is (willing). It's obvious when 'what is' becomes unpleasant the adverse reaction is the same thing as trying to make it as you want it to be. Sometimes that reaction is perceived as an action, but regardless, calling it action or reaction doesn't change the reality of the urge we recognise as volition.

Everytime the volition is incited a potential is created which has to manifest as conscious experience at some time. On a very subtle level it is instant and can be felt like a vibration in the body, but there are elements which manifest later as all the necessary conditions come together. As they do, either instantly or later, we continually react to that arising and the generated potentials accumulate. Each of us have a ton of these and we can't really process them because we are always continuing to generate more. When we stop generating them, aka cease creating kamma, the old potentials from past volitions continue to arise as conscious experience and pass away, but we no longer generate new ones and are purified as the old stuff empties out or 'integrates' or however people imagine these things.

Now we mention grace. I don't know what it is, but you'll notice how it is very desirable. 'What about me' 'I want grace, too' How come I don't get the grace' and yearning, desire, craving, misery - generating more kamma accumulating more potentials, continually perpetuating 'me, my, mine, I' through time.

Originally Posted by eputkonen

A: No personal action (current or past) will result in enlightenment. Karma is action and consequences of action, but enlightenment is more of a "grace" and is not caused by anything a "me" does.

The seeking of enlightenment is Jungian ego-based and that's the first realisation of enlightenment. If you are looking to be enlightened or you're trying to attain enlightenment then your reference point is the Jungian ego, that's something 'me' does. You're still trapped in the karma of thinking you know best egoism because you've redefined the ego and declared yourself as having gone through ego-death.

Gaining, achieving, attaining, being are all words the Jungian ego uses.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

A: No personal action (current or past) will result in enlightenment. Karma is action and consequences of action, but enlightenment is more of a "grace" and is not caused by anything a "me" does.

And a further thought. Enlightenment or realisation is a spiritual initiation into a greater reality. This is not the initiation of the personality or the little "me", because this little "me" has no existence. It is an initiation undergone by Consciousness or the Soul, because the spiritual journey is the journey of the Soul.

Such an initiation may well be described as grace in that it is a gift bestowed by a Higher Power. But I suggest that this grace is not available to everyone. This initiation is given to those for whom realisation or enlightenment is the next stage in the journey, and this does depend on their current and past actions and state of development.

The belief that everyone is already enlightened and anyone can realise their enlightenment at any time seems to ignore the reality of the human experience.

Peace

[Unseeking Seeker]

I would like to submit that in my view the ego (identity) being a temporary manifestation of consciousness to activate lower mind and senses of body ~ this aspect generates no karma, as long as an instrument of higher mind (love oriented) wherein the soul is in a continuum of awareness of both singularity (polarity union) and duality (polarity separation).

However, when the baton of awareness is ego-centric, mind-body driven, insentient to the spiritual heart, one with God-consciousness, then the thoughts, words and deeds as our threefold action generate karma, which needs resolution, until misalignment is corrected.

Grace is simply a doubt-free seamless connection with our own divinity within, rooted in purity of being, when ego recedes and we no longer resist shining as as love & light, which we already are.

[Ewwerrin]

Act of non action: to allow.