Is suffering real ? Is love, joy real?

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

So Erwwinnnnnnn...Have...
... or death.
So I DO follow.

Yeah, any kind of pain/ilness can vanish, because it is not real. Physical conditions don't exist as real things unto themselves. They are merely extensions of your vibrational relativity with God Source. Emotions however are different. Because they are indicators of the only thing that is real forever. Your relationship with God Source. Since you are an inseperable extension of it, there exists no limit to that kind of pain/suffering. Let's call it eternal pain. But even so. Once people go through that, they come out of it realising the only thing that matters. The only thing that is truely real forever. And that is your Joy.

Eternal pain does not exist to torment one. It helps one realise that pain has no place in your eternal nature, or it has a different purpose than you think. You have to drop it at some point. That which causes it I mean. Once you learn to appreciate it, it vanishes. It is just a messenger like that. You learn to receive the message and the messenger vanishes. It is your own true energy filtered through all kinds of habbitually practiced energetic thought patterns (believes) of resistance.

So all the pain is just helping you remember what it is that you want, so that you can allow yourself to give it your unconditional attention. Physical pain and illness is just an extension of not listening to the messenger. Your own emotional, energy motional, guidance mechanism.

So that is why your true nature is unconditional joy.

I hope that makes sense. It makes sense to me.

[Miss Hepburn]

Excerpt Post 40

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

So Erwwinnnnnnn...Have you put to practice what you are preaching?
Ever been in a lot of pain, say, from an injury or a surgical procedure?
Have you had every single neg emotion vanish, for example?

This is my wish - that you would answer these questions...and use "I", instead of ''you'' sentences.
I dunno, can you do that? If it's too much pressure - you don't have to. :)

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Excerpt Post 40This is my wish - that you would answer these questions...and use "I", instead of ''you'' sentences.
I dunno, can you do that? If it's too much pressure - you don't have to. :)

Ofc my bad. Ty for feedback. I learn as I go. well, thanks to you atleast.

[1Greg2]

Is suffering real? Who asks? They should know.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Suffering - illusion or not? Love, joy - Illusion or not?

Like the chair you're looking at, it is real and yet it is not...the dream we are living in is real and yet it is not.
The dream you have when sleeping is real and yet it is not.

What do you mean by real or illusion?

Dreaming is a real act, and a fact that a person does, while asleep, therefore, a dream is not an illusion, but the dream is also not real or a fact. Dreams are a very subjective subconscious thing, and varies from person to person. Illusions happen when a person is awake or conscious.

I think people confuse the contents of the dream, with the act of doing the dreaming, as not being real or as an illusion.

The same thing can be said for daydreaming or fantasizing while awake.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

What do you mean by real or illusion?

Dreaming is a real act, and a fact that a person does, while asleep, therefore, a dream is not an illusion, but the dream is also not real or a fact. Dreams are a very subjective subconscious thing, and varies from person to person. Illusions happen when a person is awake or conscious.


.

On a slightly deeper level what we are never sleeps. The whole dream metaphor isn't even based upon a true reality which should set some alarm bells ringing.

I mentioned the other day that there are so many levels and understandings had of what we refer to as dreams.

Some are subconsciously created that can mirror our current thoughts and feelings, some are prophetical, some are where we meet up with those that have past over into the realms of spirit.

All can be observed and experienced via different ways and means.

To build a foundation of an absolute realty that is dream based, based upon an experience of what we call a basic dream in my eyes isn't right on so many levels.

Lucid dreams are pretty cool but can also reflect being aware that you are creating a dream, some lucid dreams are not created in the same way.

I think peeps need to understanding the nature of what is a dream just like everything else. A lot of non dualist don't even understand the nature of the individual.


x daz x

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

On a slightly deeper level what we are never sleeps. The whole dream metaphor isn't even based upon a true reality which should set some alarm bells ringing.

True, soul, spirit, energy or whater you want to call it, does not sleep, thus does not dream.

I think people are stuck on the dream metaphor, because people heard or read about gurus or teachers doing miracle or magical things, that in reality, may just be marketing. Some people may even use the dream metaphor, as a way to tap into the creating power of ultimate reality to do miracle or magical things, like the guru or teacher.

Most, non-dualists think they experience ultimate reality when they focus on, or dare I say daydream or fantasize about ultimate reality.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I think people are stuck on the dream metaphor, because people heard or read about gurus or
teachers doing miracle or magical things, ...

Possibly, some do.
Ask me or NDErs why they talk about this world being a dream...an actual dream ..not a metaphor.
An intellectual with no direct exp of it being just that might say it is a metaphor they 'heard' about, yes.

Just as 'Light' to those that never have seen it think 'light' is
just a metaphor for 'knowledge'.

[Baile]

Suffering - illusion?

The privilege of North American and much of western society. While tens of thousands die and millions are displaced in Ukraine, Gaza, the African continent, we sit with our laptops, in the sun on our decks, in our air-conditioned homes, and ask and wonder if suffering is an illusion.

Not a critique at anyone, other than anyone who states that the answer is yes.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Ask me or NDErs why they talk about this world being a dream...an actual dream ..not a metaphor.

And me, and the only way I can describe it is with metaphor/analogy and it's not an intellectual exercise. It's as direct an experience as hearing someone clap their hands.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Just as 'Light' to those that never have seen it think 'light' is just a metaphor for 'knowledge'.

As Rupert Spira refers to It - The Shining Light of Pure Knowing. It's neither a physical light nor an intellectual knowing. It's something else, a direct experience and That is all there really is. Everywhere.