Meditation, some answers

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Gem … alright, let’s skip that part I mentioned. What’s the ‘accident that just happens’ as you said and leads or shifts to what, in as an attribute or realisation in permanence … or even experientially?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ Gem … alright, let’s skip that part I mentioned. What’s the ‘accident that just happens’ as you said and leads or shifts to what, in as an attribute or realisation in permanence … or even experientially?

Most spiritual stuff like purification and development is a progression which improves with practice as time goes on, but then there is the truth as you are. That one happens suddenly and unexpectedly. You notice it, like, 'oh I see'. You don't have to be 'spiritually advanced' or fully purified or anything like that. It's the way you are now. On noticing it you realise how everything is seen with complete purity of love, and how it is identical to your own nature.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Gem … thanks for the explanation.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 966 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I am more than pleased; I jump out of my skin in Joy for days sometimes because of what I exp'd in meditation!!!!

Like yourself, I too would often "jump out of my skin in Joy for days sometimes because of what I exp'd in meditation"!!!

In Theravada Buddhism, the four jhanas (absorptions) are discussed.

1.The first jhana can involve thought (absorbed in thought injection and/or discursive thought on a particular focus for meditation). For example, when the "impossible" happened during encounters with sages and also at other times, I would meditate on how such things were possible.

2. The second jhana is often characterized by JOY JOY JOY when one has that indescribable AHA MOMENT that follows a particular realization.

3. The third jhana is often characterized as HAPPINESS, the lingering effect of a particular realization.

4. The fourth jhana is characterized by EQUANIMITY, the point at which one is fully established in that understanding and one wonders why one didn't realize it sooner.

Of course, as you duly noted, one experiences JOY and also PEACE during meditation and it often lingers for days as described above. However, one does not go into meditation in order to repeat the experience though the PEACE does manifest more and more continuously in that state.

Regarding some Buddhist groups that have issues with joy and sit through PAIN, I attended one such joy-less group in Brooklyn (NY) once and only once. When the sensei opened the floor to questions, I mentioned that my teacher would pose questions or make statements or do things that were so absorbing that, when I sat in meditation, I was so absorbed that 8-9 hours would elapse before I would come out of meditation. During that period, there was no sense of body consciousness and NO PAIN. I acknowledged that his form of "meditation" was an interesting discipline, but I could sense an uneasiness in the assembly as he struggled to convincingly answer any of my questions related to this practice in contrast to the practice to which I was accustomed. Afterwards, attendees swarmed around me to get information about my teacher, and I facilitated a meeting for them with my teacher who switched gears to a Buddhist perspective even though we met in her Hindu temple. Needless to say, I never went back to the Buddhist JOY-LESS PAIN CLINIC.

NOTE: Interestingly enough, I am attending an invite-only Buddhist zoom group this coming Saturday as I am very drawn to Buddhist practices (methodology without theology, as I often say). This group was highly recommended by a friend, and I submitted a request for an invitation via the group's web site. To my surprise, the Tibetan Buddhist monk who heads the organization stunned me by calling me personally on my cell phone as the content of my submission had resonated well with him. We spoke for a long time on the phone and, after I told him that I actually had spent 7 days in Lhasa Tibet in the 1980s, he insisted that I join the group on Saturday.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 966 EXCERPT:

4. The fourth jhana is characterized by EQUANIMITY, the point at which one is fully established in that understanding and one wonders why one didn't realize it sooner.

Nice Still Waters,
I would rather call this state of Equanimity one of Eternal Joy, if we are to use words.

Antoine

[Gem]

If I sit for just one hour, I usually experience quite a bit of discomfort, and I find sitting upright and still for an hour takes quite a bit of determination.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

NOTE: ... To my surprise, the Tibetan Buddhist monk who heads the organization stunned me by calling me personally on my cell phone ... he insisted that I join the group on Saturday.

I'm so proud of you---I'm not surprised he called you, my friend.

[Miss Hepburn]

Gem, this discomfort sitting, gee.
When I first went to an SRF* group meditation was I ever surprised.
They sit in chairs! Regular straight back chairs with typical padding.
Then, the 'leader' mentioned he went to a group that lifted the the back 2 legs with a piece of 2x4 ! Huh?
It seemed to raise/tilt you just right to keep you more erect naturally. Never heard of that.
Being an artist with the right paints...I volunteered to cut and sand some 2x4 squares, paint them to not be noticed at all.
Ha, can't rem how many chairs...maybe 60? Hahahaha
And what do you know they wer fabulous!

Btw, Paramahansa Yogananda taught to sit on 100% wool -I read why, can't rem; something about the earth's energy,
ha, it either blocks it or helps it! (Since we don't have a leopard skin like the yogis use
in the Himalayan Mountain caves! Lol...next best thing!)

**Also, you can use a small stool, padded, with your socks, maybe just 4 inches to raise your knees a drop.
I was shocked.
And now will never sit without this tilted chair and stool!
And I can and do for hours and hours and hours as if I have no body---not one stitch of discomfort!!!
Can you believe it?
(And I'm no spring chicken with some football injuries besides!)


*Self-Realization Fellowship

[A human Being]

@Miss Hepburn Good tip! I forget where I heard this, but I heard that it's a good idea to sit in such a way that your hips are above the level of your knees because that'll help you to sit upright without strain, and I know I've found that to be true in my own experience. Good posture's very important in meditation, it seems to me, because it helps to minimise physical discomfort (some discomfort is to be expected, certainly initially, but discomfort that's being caused by poor posture should be eliminated where possible, in my opinion).

Yup. Just elevate the hips above the knees and it only needs to be a couple of inches. It rotates the hips such that it's less likely for the lower back to slouch. Much more stable and comfortable. Before I got this I used an adjustable office chair where the seat's tilt is adjustable. https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared...yDoFaAFC3QyaB5