Meditation, some answers

Hello Human Being,

Their is a great comfort in listening to our heart beats. For sure it changes the mind listening to them.

Antoine

[Miss Hepburn]

There is a great comfort
in listening to our heart beats;
it changes the mind.

Ever consider coming over to the Zen poetry thread, Legrand?

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Legrand

Their is a great comfort in listening to our heart beats. For sure it changes the mind listening to them.

I can well imagine It was more the whole idea of controlling one's heart beat that you mentioned that didn't really appeal me.

[Gem]

I guess meditation in principle would have nothing to do with controlling the heart or the breath or anything else. It would be more like not controlling anything as meditation pertains to the cessation of volition. However, other forms volitional and mental activity are also called 'meditation' - which is a complete contradiction.

Originally Posted by A human Being

I can well imagine It was more the whole idea of controlling one's heart beat that you mentioned that didn't really appeal me.

I can understand A human Being.

The physical body is well done in protecting itself from our chaotic day to day mind, it allows a little bit to the day to day mind to control a bit the breath. But the day to day mind is not the real master of the breath.

For the physical heart there is a protection so that the chaotic day to day mind does not have control over its beats. The somatic emotions that can be induced sometimes by the day to day mind may have a little indirect effect on the heart beats rhythm, like a sudden fear or deciding to run instead of standing still will change the rhythm of the heart.

But when you start really listening to the heart beats with all your mind, it changes your mind, like I said, to the point that your mind becomes the real master that has full control over each heart beats and at the same time over each breath.

Its a great responsibility for this master of the heart and breath to become conscious, that most, at the state of our physical evolution, are not ready to do and survive in having such a control on the somatic consciousness. For one who touches the consciousness of our somatic apparatus, a simple little moment of panic is sufficient to kill him or her.

The stress that we live in our societies, by the sickness it induces in the bodies, is still the main killer of those who do not die of their natural death.

Regards

Antoine

Originally Posted by Gem

I guess meditation in principle would have nothing to do with controlling the heart or the breath or anything else. It would be more like not controlling anything as meditation pertains to the cessation of volition. However, other forms volitional and mental activity are also called 'meditation' - which is a complete contradiction.

Hello Gem,

Like I said, finding and merging with who controls the breath and the heart beats is a technique. In this way it is not the meditative state.

The meditative state is just that a state.

While meditations are techniques or reflections on things, that may lead or not to the meditative state.

It is maybe from where comes this confusion, that you call contradiction, about this word meditation.

Antoine

White torture

How long one physical body can stay in a sensory deprivation torture room, where one can only hear their heart beats, without becoming crazy, is to me a nice test on how the false mind that thinks that it is in control of the physical body is also in tune with reality.

But their is no way to really test how one is really in tune with reality.

"Auditorily, the cell is soundproof, and void of any sound, voices or social interaction.[7] Guards stand in silence, wearing padded shoes to avoid making any noise.[1] Prisoners cannot hear anything but themselves.[8]"

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_torture

Antoine

I wonder who suffers more. A meditator having practiced listening to their heartbeat.
Or the guards who aren't allowed to make a sound

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Legrand

But when you start really listening to the heart beats with all your mind, it changes your mind, like I said, to the point that your mind becomes the real master that has full control over each heart beats and at the same time over each breath. Its a great responsibility for this master of the heart and breath to become conscious, that most, at the state of our physical evolution, are not ready to do and survive in having such a control on the somatic consciousness.

Very interesting, Legrand, thank you for sharing!

[running]

a way through the mind by the heart

Opening to it can happen by the heart. where then the joy of spirit begins overwhelming the mind. At some point then resulting in a constant gravitational pull to joy and silence. the depth of such is endless.