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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 01-08-2020, 11:11 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
The reason why all these Neo-Advaita teachers are out there teaching is because they had such a realisation. Without this realisation they would not be teaching.

maybe they should have taken the hint and not started teaching. Then we might have a chance at learning something.
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  #22  
Old 01-08-2020, 11:31 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
I repeat Stephan Bodian's words:

... until this enlightenment dawns in the particular body-mind it's just an abstract concept with little power to relieve your suffering and transform your experience of reality, which is the whole point of the awakening process.

Saying that it is already Oneness not realising so realisation does not increase connection to Oneness is an intellectual concept, which may satisfy some people. The reality of such a realisation is that there is now a conscious connection to Oneness, which removes the need for all intellectual concepts.

The reason why all these Neo-Advaita teachers are out there teaching is because they had such a realisation. Without this realisation they would not be teaching.

Peace
Even honest people believe and say all kind of things. How do you know whom to believe that he had a realization? Maybe he's delusional. Maybe the whole idea of realization is erroneous. How do you know? You seem to use Oneness as another word for God ... (like in "connection to Oneness").
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #23  
Old 02-08-2020, 02:44 AM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Even honest people believe and say all kind of things. How do you know whom to believe that he had a realization? Maybe he's delusional. Maybe the whole idea of realization is erroneous. How do you know? You seem to use Oneness as another word for God ... (like in "connection to Oneness").

Indeed, that is the problem. No-one can know what someone else has realised. And when it comes to all these Neo-Advaita teachers and followers, it is easy to grasp the concepts on an intellectual level and repeat the words. When I read Iamit I get the sense that he is just repeating the words without the support of any underlying realisation. I may be doing him an injustice.

Oneness or God - both are just labels for that which cannot be described. I try to avoid the word God because it means different things to everyone. Even Oneness is becoming overused. I prefer the term The Self, but that again is just another label.

Peace
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  #24  
Old 02-08-2020, 02:56 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Indeed, that is the problem. No-one can know what someone else has realised. And when it comes to all these Neo-Advaita teachers and followers, it is easy to grasp the concepts on an intellectual level and repeat the words. When I read Iamit I get the sense that he is just repeating the words without the support of any underlying realisation. I may be doing him an injustice.

Oneness or God - both are just labels for that which cannot be described. I try to avoid the word God because it means different things to everyone. Even Oneness is becoming overused. I prefer the term The Self, but that again is just another label.

Peace
If you're interested in guys like iamit discussing Neo-Advaita and such, you might be interested in
https://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/posts/recent
I agree that many terms are overused, and that people give them different meanings, which makes communication difficult, and spreads misunderstanding.

I'm more familiar with the concept of "self', less with the other two.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #25  
Old 02-08-2020, 04:09 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Location: West Wales. u.k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
I repeat Stephan Bodian's words:

... until this enlightenment dawns in the particular body-mind it's just an abstract concept with little power to relieve your suffering and transform your experience of reality, which is the whole point of the awakening process.

Saying that it is already Oneness not realising so realisation does not increase connection to Oneness is an intellectual concept, which may satisfy some people. The reality of such a realisation is that there is now a conscious connection to Oneness, which removes the need for all intellectual concepts.

The reason why all these Neo-Advaita teachers are out there teaching is because they had such a realisation. Without this realisation they would not be teaching.

Peace

The words spoken by such teachers can be resonated with or not. Personal invalidation of such teachers is traditional propoganda attempting to protect its turf, as unforunately has historically been the case when new approaches come along.
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  #26  
Old 02-08-2020, 04:17 AM
Uday_Advaita Uday_Advaita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
To re-frame this in a different paradigm, we might say that the illusion of doing creates the illusion of causing what is happening.

From modern physics we can look at the hypothesis of the Block Universe. Here past, present, and future all simply exist and are equally real as part of the present moment. Also from physics we can look at the hypothesis of the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Here all possible outcomes of the so called 'collapse' of the quantum wave, actually do happen, each branching into a separate 'future'. Combining the two we have a reality in which all possible events, past, present, or future, including all possible outcomes, eternally have, do, and will exist. Some may see the echoes of the Akashic Records here.

In this version of reality, in a theory some have called the Search Light theory. Conscious awareness does not cause the events, as they already exist. Instead, consciousness navigates through the matrix of existing events choosing which branch it will become aware of at each junction along the way. And so it does become a matter of accepting. Consciousness builds the story it will experiences as it chooses which outcome, which branch of the ever branching universe, it will accept and become aware of.

We say I chose to do that, yet that, and every version of doing that could be done, is already done. Choice is a matter of which we will accept and experience as our next present moment of reality, and that is what we will become aware of as what is happening.

When one wishes to control the flow of water as it moves downhill in response to gravity, one does not stand in front of it and push the water here or there. The water will eventually overcome anything blocking its path, we must accept this fact. Instead, one creates a path of least resistance for the water in the direction one wishes to see it flow. One seeks to align the waters preferred path with ones own preferred path.

The flow of events that we become aware of as our experience of life, are those events that we create a path for by accepting them into our conscious awareness. We engage life by yielding to that which we wish, accepting and allowing it in, rather than resisting that which we do not, trying to block its way, and being overwhelmed by it.

The way of the Tao is like that of water. The highest harmony results when ones own path aligns with the way of the Tao. Then one does through non-doing, knowing that nothing is left undone.
.

Ketzer.
You have put it brilliantly.
The analogy with modern physics of events already happened / existing in the present moment (including past and future) and our choosing paths / branches as we go on as our illusive doings. I find echos of Richard Feynman's theory of "summation of alternative histories"... collapse of wave function
All of us act as a result of our so called freewill and sometimes become miserable. Wise men have always said "let life flow" through total acceptance. Especially your last para
"T[i]he way of the Tao is like that of water. The highest harmony results when ones own path aligns with the way of the Tao. Then one does through non-doing, knowing that nothing is left undone[/I
resonates perfectly
Namaskar
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  #27  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:21 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Everything stems from the awareness of I AM .

From that point onwards I AM experiences I AM .

So there IS a doer and an experiencer .

Whatever I AM does brings forth consequence .

This is why there is karma associated to I AM .

Now peeps can say what I AM believes they are is illusory and unreal etc etc .

That doesn't however negate or nullify I AM that does, I AM that experiences .

The non doer derives from beyond the awareness of I AM and doesn't reflect I AM that is present .

It's a completely different scenario but peeps seem to try and make it the same .

This is where confusion and denial comes into the experience of I AM .



x daz x
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  #28  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:59 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Indeed, that is the problem. No-one can know what someone else has realised. And when it comes to all these Neo-Advaita teachers and followers, it is easy to grasp the concepts on an intellectual level and repeat the words. When I read Iamit I get the sense that he is just repeating the words without the support of any underlying realisation. I may be doing him an injustice.

Oneness or God - both are just labels for that which cannot be described. I try to avoid the word God because it means different things to everyone. Even Oneness is becoming overused. I prefer the term The Self, but that again is just another label.

Peace

For Neo Advaita there is no such thing as personal realization/enlightenment for the imaginary person 'Amit' or anybody else. Yes of course the message is repeated as the error of not seeing that the things disliked are also Oneness manifest continues to constantly be made.
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  #29  
Old 02-08-2020, 10:09 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Indeed, that is the problem. No-one can know what someone else has realised. And when it comes to all these Neo-Advaita teachers and followers, it is easy to grasp the concepts on an intellectual level and repeat the words. When I read Iamit I get the sense that he is just repeating the words without the support of any underlying realisation. I may be doing him an injustice.

Oneness or God - both are just labels for that which cannot be described. I try to avoid the word God because it means different things to everyone. Even Oneness is becoming overused. I prefer the term The Self, but that again is just another label.

Peace

Where is becomes problematic is that there is no-one that can realise anything, there is no doer, there is no experiencer and yet what happens is there are non duality masters that still present their truths without associating these truths to their very self .

It becomes a mindful play of dodgeball, saying things and then denying that anything said is associated to them saying it lol .

Or what is said comes through an illusory representation that is not the real self or the true self .

These non duality concepts unfortunately bring so much confusion whereas sitting quietly in I AM awareness doesn't .

Who really wants to fill their heads with non duality teachings that reflect no-one is here teaching or being taught .

I suppose it's an experience that is needed regardless of the outcome



x daz x
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  #30  
Old 02-08-2020, 10:49 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Where is becomes problematic is that there is no-one that can realise anything, there is no doer, there is no experiencer and yet what happens is there are non duality masters that still present their truths without associating these truths to their very self .

It becomes a mindful play of dodgeball, saying things and then denying that anything said is associated to them saying it lol .

Or what is said comes through an illusory representation that is not the real self or the true self .

These non duality concepts unfortunately bring so much confusion whereas sitting quietly in I AM awareness doesn't .

Who really wants to fill their heads with non duality teachings that reflect no-one is here teaching or being taught .

I suppose it's an experience that is needed regardless of the outcome



x daz x

Nondual points are made for the purpose of offering a nondual solution to ending the spiritual search. If there are no separate persons then there is noone to conduct the spiritual search or to become enlightened or realize, so what is thought to be the purpose of the search has no point or basis.
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