Are there living enlightened buddhist teachers ?

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

"He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird."

***************

I would say these things are real. Are they a sign of advancement or enlightenment ? Others who are more well versed in the Pali Canon might want to answer that. That you haven't experienced them is a sign of some kind of lesser achievement ? That's a bit boy Scottish isn't it ? It seems the path of Theravada is marked out that way, when you do this that will happen etc. very linear in appearance at least as it appears in writing. Amazing thing that someone or someones have written down a pathway in the form of meditational instruction and description, namely, Buddhist monks and yet and yet even after all these descriptions and disciples there is still some randomness and unpredictability to it all, what other religions have called Grace etc.

Having recently come across the philosopher Wittgenstein in a kind of synchronistic way which leads me to believe he wants to teach me something lol ..how humbling, i was amazed to hear that 'Master of Logic' say it could not all be answered using language , theories, maps, syllogisms, mathematics etc. Nice to see someone bowing to the mystery isn't it ? Or having the termity of saying ..."I dont know"

***************

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

. Are they a sign of advancement or enlightenment?

Not of enlightenment, but a sign of advanced concentration abilities. The siddhi according to many a samatha meditation teacher are a natural side effect of deep concentration.
Dipa ma, is said to have had strong concentration and there are stories about the display of many of the "known" siddhi's.
As I understand though she viewed them as tricks. Not especially worthy of much contemplation. They tend to become a hindrance instead of a help. The siddhi are, as all phenomena subject to passing away and therefore not necessary on the path.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Not of enlightenment, but a sign of advanced concentration abilities. The siddhi according to many a samatha meditation teacher are a natural side effect of deep concentration.
Dipa ma, is said to have had strong concentration and there are stories about the display of many of the "known" siddhi's.
As I understand though she viewed them as tricks. Not especially worthy of much contemplation. They tend to become a hindrance instead of a help. The siddhi are, as all phenomena subject to passing away and therefore not necessary on the path.

Sidhhis might be considered 'parlor' tricks, but if you look at them a little more, they might serve a purpose. Can you imagine doing a test without studying or the one I want to do someday, is drive a vehicle with a blindfold on. I later mastered that of being able to see with a blind fold on but never went to the part of driving with the blindfold on. Then there is the ability to see in pitch darkness which I find as something that might really be usable. Something I was able to do is see a person's skeleton as if it was an x-ray. That could be handy to see if something is broken, etc. Can you imagine coming up with something nobody else has done and then wonder how you were able to do that? I have experienced that numerous times.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

but if you look at them a little more, they might serve a purpose.

I agree. I should have used the word skill instead of a trick.
May I ask?
Do you see them as a sign of enlightenment? or as a skill that can be developed.

[BigJohn]

What is enlightenment?
For the most part, an undefinable word.

Whereas, Siddhis, as far as I am concerned, can be developed, but are not because many people considered them 'bad'.

I chuckle over the Hebrew account of the Magicians imitating the magic Moses performed. What were they really doing?

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 62 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Eelco

The siddhi according to many a samatha meditation teacher are a natural side effect of deep concentration.

Pantanjali’s yoga sutras describe the siddhis (powers/“magic”) that arise naturally in meditation but NOT for the purpose of acquiring them (as that could reinforce the ego) but as advisory information regarding that “strangeness”which arises quite naturally in meditation.

I have personally witnessed such things in the Himalayas and elsewhere (and discussed them extensively with various sages throughout the world). It is well said that “miracles” are rarely performed without a trace of ego … and my spiritual mentor did not perform to attract the circus �� crowd … but did “slip” privately occasionally for intense seekers. ����

The ostentatious display of siddhis do serve a purpose (in realizing that virtually anything is possible) but they are not generally an indication of enlightenment (IMHO).

[BigJohn]

Still Waters wrote: "The ostentatious display of siddhis do serve a purpose (in realizing that virtually anything is possible) but they are not generally an indication of enlightenment (IMHO)."

In Christianity, Jesus said his followers would be able to do what he did and more.

If you look at what Jesus was doing, they resonate very much with Siddhis. If you look, Siddhis seem to resonate in virtually all, if not all, other religions.

In Hinduism, their version of Siddhi is different then the Buddhists version...... but then, the Hindu version preceded the Buddhist version.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

In Hinduism, their version of Siddhi is different then the Buddhists version...... but then, the Hindu version preceded the Buddhist version.

Could you explain or point to a recourse where I can learn about the differences? I always thought they were similar. Just the reasoning about them was different.

As a sidenote. The book that started my journey was the wonderful story of Henry Sugar by Roald Dahl. I must have been 8 or 9 and spend hours lying on my back looking at the lightbulb on the ceiling of my room. I wasn't allowed a burning candle yet. Searching for the ability to know what card was next in the deck.

@smilingsun
Let everyone and everything on your path be your teacher.
Silence yourself into your own stillness and you may find you are already enlightened and always were.
Then you can BE yourself.