Purpose of life

[ameliorate]

Originally Posted by Altair

Look at life on Earth, it changes due to things we have little to no control over. It is us humans that are concerned with grand plans and structure, and IMO that is a product of civilization.

Yes our planet changes but I hope you are not implying that there is no structure?
https://www.lcps.org/cms/lib/VA01000...dy%20Guide.pdf

[Altair]

Originally Posted by ameliorate

Yes our planet changes but I hope you are not implying that there is no structure?
https://www.lcps.org/cms/lib/VA01000...dy%20Guide.pdf

We humans observe structures, make plans, create tools, and are moral agents. We project all of this upon the ultimate human, aka 'God'. We assume God must be like us, the guy/thing that has the ultimate plan, is the ultimate tool maker, and moral agent. It's what we came up with in the last +- 3000 years or so across a few emerging religions, which are products of a more advanced stage of complex civilization. The Abrahamic traditions, the Dharmic traditions, the moralistic attitudes of the Upanishads. The negative views of the 'worldly', the quest to pacify or eliminate all pleasure, the desperate attempts to escape the world.

Now here's a real irony! Before Christianity emerged, there were many places that dabbled into monotheism. There were Jews, Egyptians, and Greek philosophers believing there to be one God. However, the monotheists' concerns with one truth and objectivity (albeit, theologically) meant they instigated the emergence of modern science, and in doing so it has made all structured religion of the past +- 3000 years pretty much obsolete. Now we are back at the drawing board, baby! We are asking the simple questions of is there an afterlife? and is there a spirit? All the other baggage (creationism, talking snakes, karma, god creating purpose and a plan) can be cast aside, as they were products and projections, and attempts to idolize the human experience above all else.

Wondrous, I would say!

[ameliorate]

Originally Posted by Altair

We humans observe structures, make plans, create tools, and are moral agents. We project all of this upon the ultimate human, aka 'God'. We assume God must be like us, the guy/thing that has the ultimate plan, is the ultimate tool maker, and moral agent. It's what we came up with in the last +- 3000 years or so across a few emerging religions, which are products of a more advanced stage of complex civilization. The Abrahamic traditions, the Dharmic traditions, the moralistic attitudes of the Upanishads. The negative views of the 'worldly', the quest to pacify or eliminate all pleasure, the desperate attempts to escape the world.

Now here's a real irony! Before Christianity emerged, there were many places that dabbled into monotheism. There were Jews, Egyptians, and Greek philosophers believing there to be one God. However, the monotheists' concerns with one truth and objectivity (albeit, theologically) meant they instigated the emergence of modern science, and in doing so it has made all structured religion of the past +- 3000 years pretty much obsolete. Now we are back at the drawing board, baby! We are asking the simple questions of is there an afterlife? and is there a spirit? All the other baggage (creationism, talking snakes, karma, god creating purpose and a plan) can be cast aside, as they were products and projections, and attempts to idolize the human experience above all else.

Wondrous, I would say!

Well I see you've done some homework on the history of some religions. However, aside from orthodox religions, are you familiar with pantheism - identifying God with the universe (i.e. not a personal God at all?) Native Americans, druids and pagans share this belief and I myself came to contemplate it as being real/the truth following a spontaneous and natural (not drug induced) profound mystical experience.

I am somewhat astonished that, on a spiritual forum, you question whether there is a spirit/soul! Perhaps you are asking/questioning this in the concept of an afterlife though i.e. I hope you concede that we all have souls?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by ameliorate

Well I see you've done some homework on the history of some religions. However, aside from orthodox religions, are you familiar with pantheism - identifying God with the universe (i.e. not a personal God at all?) Native Americans, druids and pagans share this belief and I myself came to contemplate it as being real/the truth following a spontaneous and natural (not drug induced) profound mystical experience.

They are different from complex civilization, which are excessively concerned with structure, building big stuff, grand plans for you and your future, complex laws and morals, language and speech codes, hierarchies between life forms. You know, all these things that become more important when people are cramped together in big cities! Is it any wonder religions reflect this in their views on God, cycle of reincarnation, afterlife, the Universe...?

All of this impacts spiritual practice and content of experience. You can't tell me people are neutral or free from structure when they tell themselves they can eat apples and lobsters but not cows and need to meditate daily for decades to ''shed karma'', nor if they believe they carry ''sin'' because some distant ancestor ate a forbidden fruit, and now you have to believe in God or else.....

I would say a lot of content in the big religions (Abrahamic & Dharmic) is needless spiritual bureaucracy!
An 'objective purpose' to the Universe would be a claim of God having a mind and a goal/plan..

[ameliorate]

Originally Posted by Altair

I would say a lot of content in the big religions (Abrahamic & Dharmic) is needless spiritual bureaucracy!
An 'objective purpose' to the Universe would be a claim of God having a mind and a goal/plan..

I take your point and share your reservations on orthodox religion. However I hope you concede that spirituality is largely free of these conditioned limitations?

[Miss Hepburn]

With all the layers that this means leading up to this,
I would say to find God.
After that ... now, enjoy it!

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by ameliorate

Well I see you've done some homework on the history of some religions. However, aside from orthodox religions, are you familiar with pantheism - identifying God with the universe (i.e. not a personal God at all?) Native Americans, druids and pagans share this belief and I myself came to contemplate it as being real/the truth following a spontaneous and natural (not drug induced) profound mystical experience.

I am somewhat astonished that, on a spiritual forum, you question whether there is a spirit/soul! Perhaps you are asking/questioning this in the concept of an afterlife though i.e. I hope you concede that we all have souls?

Pantheism?

How would you relate that to Animism, that is, Spirit in everything?

[ameliorate]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Pantheism?

How would you relate that to Animism, that is, Spirit in everything?

I struggle with the concept that inanimate objects have spirit i.e. a soul but they have energy e.g. crystals.

How about yourself - do you believe inanimate objects (however small, e.g. a piece of gravel) has a spirit/soul?

[lemex]

Originally Posted by ameliorate

Then, of course, we make our own purposes i.e. this is overlaid on the fundamental purpose perhaps. We are given freewill but the cards we are dealt are outside of our control and seem to point towards a higher agenda/purpose for our lives.

Freewill and reincarnation are linked, all is connected, everything linked, even purpose. Many do not believe in freewill. Without freewill, how can we know (our) spirit.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Pantheism?

How would you relate that to Animism, that is, Spirit in everything?

I don't know (or care) what Animism is..BUT, fun question, BJ ..
Spirit in everything.

Cuz, Oh my gosh, for about 50 yrs now I have experienced many times
Spirit in everything...before I would
think to call It Spirit!! I just said God....in everything...as in everything.

Watching TV Christians, (2006), I said to myself ---'Oh they say Holy Spirit ...Yes...that's what It is a Holy Spirit -
the Spirit of God'... the Creator, the All That Is...
I don't know about soul in a rock ---but a consciousness I sure know about that.

(And in the air, and the grass and the ground and walls and ceilings ...and brick and in the color 'red'...
and in the distant mountains and in the clouds....whew ---you name it.

Hahahaha and not on drugs.