No self/consciousness?

[Starman]

When all that truly exists is one eternal moment, there is no past or future, Memory exists in the past but when there is truly no past there is no memory. Nonetheless, I do embrace that we came here from there; we entered into time and space from no time or space; just one eternal moment.

Time is a dance of shadow and light, where we call the light day and the shadow night. All motion in time and space is circular; the Earth turns once on its axis and we call it a day, the Earth goes around the Sun once and we call it a year. There is no straight line from past to present to future; in my opinion, it all occurs in one eternal moment.

In that eternal moment we are born, our mind and body grows, we participate in this world, and then our body dies. Time and distance are intertwined, but in oneness there is no distance, there is no space, as all is occupied by that oneness of being, and there is no time. Memory exists in time. In time and space everything is in transition, everything is in motion. It all takes place within an eternal moment of stillness, which we can experience if we quiet our mind.

The thing about pain is that, for most, when it is gone its like it never happened. It is only when we are in pain that we feel we have had enough. Joy makes pain a far distance memory, if remembered at all. I have worked with alcoholics and when I asked them how come you did not seek treatment sooner, most would say “I had not reached my bottom yet.” Meaning the pain was not yet that unbearable.

Janis Joplin sang “freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. Freedom is unconditional, which is difficult for most living in a world based on conditions. Can we truly deal with this conditional world without any conditions? Our very physical body has conditions. Human beings struggle with unconditional love; we are very selective in our human state.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

That's also why I don't mind when people say "I don't exist." or "there is no you."

But beside that, it's still funny how the mind reacts to hearing that.

Mind (read Ego) doesn't like to let go of what it believes it owns - Being. I am alive. I am conscious. I exist. I Am.

From the film 'Lucky' https://youtu.be/-IMNs8UtPk4

[Goldcup7]

I look at it like this: I am aware therefore I know I am. It's a bit like saying I know I am, so I know I am.

But it's a leap to say I am something objective, because the appearance of objects is within consciousness or awareness, and objects don't stick around. I say the core basic nature of existence is formless unbounded conscious being. It is only in consciousness that anything can be known or experienced. Therefore consciousness is the root and container of all experience.

If infinity is true, which is the case imo, then there can be no self separate from others. So I agree there is no self. But who can say that they know there is no consciousness?

[God-Like]

I think in general from exchanging thoughts with other's is that peeps seem to make a divide of sorts when it comes down to the individual self and all that is.

It's either one or the other, and if it's the individual self then it has to be in an illusory dream context.

I think in regards to the opening post, what it really boils down to is being self aware or not.

self awareness in reflection of everything else is mindful.

If there is no self awareness then there is no awareness of anything else.

Some might say there is only awareness that is aware of awareness but that just suggests that what you are is just awareness and if peeps want to solidify that, beyond self is beyond comprehension then one cannot proclaim such a thing.



x daz x

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

What is ment by it? No self, no consciousness.

My understanding is that No self OR Void or Zeroness are the terms coined during the emergence of buddhism. Buddhisam has come out of Hinduism . Hinduism at that time was dominated by ritualistic (demanding live sacrifices) and extreme materialistic . So people always view the life only in material terms only ditto like what today's majority people do . They only understand material things alone are everything . It takes years of recitation that I am not this & that....., that one can come to something that there is something beyond/behind/underlying the visible world . So Buddhists spent great deal of time in this .While some definitely can reach an enlightenment even with this negation , for the majority without any live demonstration this too may be incomplete and need the spiritual definition .

Precise this phenomenon is described by Shankaracharya in his The Atmashatakam (आत्मषट्कम्, ātmaṣatkam), also known as Nirvanashatkam (निर्वाणषट्कम्, Nirvāṇaṣatkam). It is a non-dualistic (advaita) composition consisting of 6 verses in which first 5 verses describes what I am not (no self ) and then in the final 6 verse gives elaborate spiritual description of the self in clear words like following.

I am all pervasive.
I am without any attributes, and without any form.
I have neither attachment to the world,nor to liberation (mukti).
I have no wishes for anything because I am everything,everywhere,
every time,always in equilibrium.
I am indeed, That eternal knowing and bliss, the auspicious (Śivam), pure consciousness.

So alone limited finite known material understanding is 'No Self' and unlimited infinite unknown spiritual understanding coupled with limited finite known material understanding is 'Self' rather 'Full / Whole / Complete self' .

Due to all his (Shankaracharya's) negation (like in first 5 verses ) and his monk-hood life people (not in consonance with Hinduism) describe him as under-cover-hidden buddhist whereas he was an ardent votary of original Hinduism without the ill-effects as were prevalent during the Buddhist time. So it was He who identified Buddha as an incarnation of God despite miinor differences in the verbiage use in philosophical descriptions. Thus Buddha too is God of Hindus.

[Starman]

Religious theology and its labels are one thing and personal experience is something else. What is your experience of self beyond your physical body? Many, including me, have had very intimate experiences of what is called “cosmic consciousness.” In cosmic consciousness your consciousness expands outward beyond your physical body.

It is glistening transparent, and translucent, emerging from our body as a sphere, an extremely clear bubble expanding immeasurable. The feeling is fresh, clear, sweet, and there is no reference to “self.” It is beyond words and thoughts. Awareness is an extension of consciousness. Awareness can be used to grow our consciousness.

There are people who are conscious who are not self aware, or they have very limited self awareness. To understand consciousness and awareness it helps to also try and understand unconsciousness. When we say I was unconscious or unaware of something what are we talking about; a lack of awareness.

Consciousness can exist without awareness. We can be conscious and unaware. People experience this every day. In my opinion consciousness is the primordial essence and awareness is light which emanates from that essence. Give our attention to our own inner light and we can grow our awareness. Awareness is light which allows us to see. This is my experience.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Starman

To understand consciousness and awareness it helps to also try and understand unconsciousness. When we say I was unconscious or unaware of something what are we talking about; a lack of awareness.

An Advaitan would say something like deep sleep or any unconscious state is not an absence of experience but an experience of absence (of mind).

[Starman]

J A S G, that makes sense to me, an experience of absence; still in that experience we are aware of absence even if we do not acknowledge that absence. Absence is often referred to as a “blank state.“ So awareness exists even in a lack of self awareness, or a lack of experiential awareness.

Although, in my opinion, awareness requires acknowledgement, even in a blank state, which often most report no acknowledgement in a blank state; they simply say “I don‘t know what happened, I blacked out.” Maybe blacking out is the acknowledgement of absence.

[Redchic12]

JASG #12

Aww just loved that little video! Thank you.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Goldcup7

I look at it like this: I am aware therefore I know I am. It's a bit like saying I know I am, so I know I am.

It's like Descartes' "I think, therefore I Am" only a deeper level. A much deeper level.