Can forgiveness ever be detrimental to self?

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

there is no line when it comes to forgiveness

Save for the one beyond which we choose not to step......

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by bobjob

Are we, then, equating human emotion to a dog's nature?

We change our own response and world view with compassion & understanding instead of stagnating in ego borne expectations ... that too based on outer form. Moreover, what is human nature? We have the three Gunas. What is the fulcrum for the most of us?

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Starman

Excellent post Unseeking Seeker. Yes, expectation can be the villain. It reminds me of a common
story you may have heard before:

A scorpion wanted to cross a shallow river, and a monk came along picked up the scorpion and took
it across the river. When the monk put the scorpion down it stung the monk. The monk asked
“why did you sting me?” The scorpion replied because I am a scorpion. It is my nature to sting others.

There are people who have unrealistic expectations from someone whose nature it is to
sting them.

https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i...ta_part_iv.htm

If this applies to one's self should it not apply to others? That's not to say one should not have boundaries, but one should approach forgiveness from a position of empathy.

This network of Karma we have woven around ourselves; and in our ignorance we feel as if we are bound, and weep and wail for help. But help does not come from without; it comes from within ourselves. Cry to all the gods in the universe. I cried for years, and in the end I found that I was helped. But help came from within. And I had to undo what I had done by mistake. That is the only way. I had to cut the net which I had thrown round myself, and the power to do this is within. Of this I am certain that not one aspiration, well-guided or ill-guided in my life, has been in vain, but that I am the resultant of all my past, both good and evil. I have committed many mistakes in my life; but mark you, I am sure of this that without every one of those mistakes I should not be what I am today, and so am quite satisfied to have made them. I do not mean that you are to go home and wilfully commit mistakes; do not misunderstand me in that way. But do not mope because of the mistakes you have committed, but know that in the end all will come out straight. It cannot be otherwise, because goodness is our nature, purity is our nature, and that nature can never be destroyed. Our essential nature always remains the same.

What we are to understand is this, that what we call mistakes or evil, we commit because we are weak, and we are weak because we are ignorant. I prefer to call them mistakes. The word sin, although originally a very good word, has got a certain flavour about it that frightens me. Who makes us ignorant? We ourselves. We put our hands over our eyes and weep that it is dark. Take the hands away and there is light; the light exists always for us, the self-effulgent nature of the human soul. Do you not hear what your modern scientific men say? What is the cause of evolution? Desire. The animal wants to do something, but does not find the environment favourable, and therefore develops a new body. Who develops it? The animal itself, its will. You have developed from the lowest amoeba. Continue to exercise your will and it will take you higher still. The will is almighty. If it is almighty, you may say, why cannot I do everything? But you are thinking only of your little self. Look back on yourselves from the state of the amoeba to the human being; who made all that? Your own will. Can you deny then that it is almighty? That which has made you come up so high can make you go higher still. What you want is character, strengthening of the will.

If I teach you, therefore, that your nature is evil, that you should go home and sit in sackcloth and ashes and weep your lives out because you took certain false steps, it will not help you, but will weaken you all the more, and I shall be showing you the road to more evil than good. If this room is full of darkness for thousands of years and you come in and begin to weep and wail, "Oh the darkness", will the darkness vanish? Strike a match and light comes in a moment. What good will it do you to think all your lives, "Oh, I have done evil, I have made many mistakes"? It requires no ghost to tell us that. Bring in the light and the evil goes in a moment. Build up your character, and manifest your real nature, the Effulgent, the Resplendent, the Ever-Pure, and call It up in everyone that you see. I wish that everyone of us had come to such a state that even in the vilest of human beings we could see the Real Self within, and instead of condemning them, say, "Rise thou effulgent one, rise thou who art always pure, rise thou birthless and deathless, rise almighty, and manifest thy true nature. These little manifestations do not befit thee."

[lemex]

Originally Posted by bobjob

The primary purpose of forgiving is to help the one that's been hurt to move on and not allow the hurt to continue to bring her/him down as they move into the future.

This part I would disagree with and it misses the point of forgiveness making it about the me. It is for both. Keep in mind, nonforgiveness can be detrimental to the self to. The rest I would agree with also.

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by lemex

This part I would disagree with and it misses the point of forgiveness making it about the me. It is for both. Keep in mind, nonforgiveness can be detrimental to the self to. The rest I would agree with also.

Your thinking was how I used to feel but it never sat right with me. After I contemplated/meditated on the issue I realised why I had been wrong.

I agree that not forgiving can be detrimental to one's emotional/mental wellbeing but apparent forgiveness is valueless if it's forced and isn't authentic.

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i...ta_part_iv.htm

If this applies to one's self should it not apply to others? That's not to say one should not have boundaries, but one should approach forgiveness from a position of empathy.

This network of Karma we have woven around ourselves; and in our ignorance we feel as if we are bound, and weep and wail for help. But help does not come from without; it comes from within ourselves. Cry to all the gods in the universe. I cried for years, and in the end I found that I was helped. But help came from within. And I had to undo what I had done by mistake. That is the only way. I had to cut the net which I had thrown round myself, and the power to do this is within. Of this I am certain that not one aspiration, well-guided or ill-guided in my life, has been in vain, but that I am the resultant of all my past, both good and evil. I have committed many mistakes in my life; but mark you, I am sure of this that without every one of those mistakes I should not be what I am today, and so am quite satisfied to have made them. I do not mean that you are to go home and wilfully commit mistakes; do not misunderstand me in that way. But do not mope because of the mistakes you have committed, but know that in the end all will come out straight. It cannot be otherwise, because goodness is our nature, purity is our nature, and that nature can never be destroyed. Our essential nature always remains the same.

What we are to understand is this, that what we call mistakes or evil, we commit because we are weak, and we are weak because we are ignorant. I prefer to call them mistakes. The word sin, although originally a very good word, has got a certain flavour about it that frightens me. Who makes us ignorant? We ourselves. We put our hands over our eyes and weep that it is dark. Take the hands away and there is light; the light exists always for us, the self-effulgent nature of the human soul. Do you not hear what your modern scientific men say? What is the cause of evolution? Desire. The animal wants to do something, but does not find the environment favourable, and therefore develops a new body. Who develops it? The animal itself, its will. You have developed from the lowest amoeba. Continue to exercise your will and it will take you higher still. The will is almighty. If it is almighty, you may say, why cannot I do everything? But you are thinking only of your little self. Look back on yourselves from the state of the amoeba to the human being; who made all that? Your own will. Can you deny then that it is almighty? That which has made you come up so high can make you go higher still. What you want is character, strengthening of the will.

If I teach you, therefore, that your nature is evil, that you should go home and sit in sackcloth and ashes and weep your lives out because you took certain false steps, it will not help you, but will weaken you all the more, and I shall be showing you the road to more evil than good. If this room is full of darkness for thousands of years and you come in and begin to weep and wail, "Oh the darkness", will the darkness vanish? Strike a match and light comes in a moment. What good will it do you to think all your lives, "Oh, I have done evil, I have made many mistakes"? It requires no ghost to tell us that. Bring in the light and the evil goes in a moment. Build up your character, and manifest your real nature, the Effulgent, the Resplendent, the Ever-Pure, and call It up in everyone that you see. I wish that everyone of us had come to such a state that even in the vilest of human beings we could see the Real Self within, and instead of condemning them, say, "Rise thou effulgent one, rise thou who art always pure, rise thou birthless and deathless, rise almighty, and manifest thy true nature. These little manifestations do not befit thee."

That's a lot of words.....

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

We change our own response and world view with compassion & understanding instead of stagnating in ego borne expectations ... that too based on outer form. Moreover, what is human nature? We have the three Gunas. What is the fulcrum for the most of us?

I wish you would keep it simple - for simple souls like me.

Originally Posted by bobjob

That's a lot of words.....

That's only a small excerpt from the last of four lectures by Swami Vivekananda over the course of several days in 1896 London, but it seemed appropriate to the topic at hand.

If you suffer from insomnia and ever make it to my neck of the woods we can sit and talk about it for a day or two. LOL!

[Kate Matthews]

Thank you for starting this thread...it's exactly what I need right now.


For me there is no line I can draw I need to deal with forgiveness and all of the emotional energies and thought forms that come with it. Unless I do I'm a garbage collector and feel all of the energy and I attract more in. I have to deal with it. I suffer only as long as I want to.


I had situations where it was hard to forgive because the stuff continued. It's hard to forgive someone who is standing on your foot. I have to take some situations back mentally to such a basic state to get to some resolve, but even the attempt at forgiveness gives me relief.

Originally Posted by SaraTherase

Hello again ��

When one thinks of forgiveness we often have a generalized idea that it is right and good. Human beings are imperfect and often make mistakes and repeat unhealthy cycles etc and usually this happens because there is something needing to be grasped, obtained or learned.

My question regarding this subject is that we often see many people in the world physically hurting other people in the way of various forms of abuse and multitudes of people cheating on spouses etc

I am curious and wishing to develop a better understanding of where exactly does one draw the line regarding forgiving others? At what point does a person's value or self respect become compromised when practicing forgiveness?

I would be grateful for any thoughts, ideas or insights.

Many thanks