The dark side of meditation

[redstone]

Amazing that they haven't raised the same "horror story" about dreaming. I mean, do they even know how that affects people? Could it be that some people's scares come from the latency that their dreams throw up?

Interesting observations though. Great. But they are for curtailing personal freedom.

:::[/quote]


It's probably because doctors and psychiatrists are now recommending more and more meditation treatment as a drug free remedy.....its going to miff the drug companys off

[Gem]

Originally Posted by redstone

They never identified what sort of retreats they were for some unknown reason.

Ok. Lack of specificity usually indicates extreme bias and sensationlaised journalism.

The negative side effects they were talking about were depression, panic, confusion, hallucinations, mania and believe it or not psychosis?

In my experience on retreat, every person will experience hard emotions as part of the healing process that they undergo. I have encountered people who have quite extreme symptoms such as terrific visions, and there are those who go straight from retreat to mental health care. I have observed all of the effects that you mention here.

maybe it's taught recklessly as you say gem and I would go along with that, I did know of a case of a guy going on vipassana retreat and he had schizophrenia, he said the week long programme helped him, it's only when he opened up to some members of the group that they then stopped him from doing another retreat and the rejection of it he says made his illness come on full on.

My view in regards to what I have observed is, The organisers, though adept in their teaching, failed to adequately address the personal sensitivities of individual medititors. The retreat situation has a 'one size fits all' approach that doesn't account for individual variance in mental stability or coping abilty.

Miguel Farias is pointing out that no real research has been done in to the negative effects of meditation, maybe it should be done! the thing that I'm getting from this is that if you have any psychological instability at all then meditation is definitely going to uncover it..the sudden overload of opening up to this psychic force can be quite scary.

The problems associated with meditation are well known to experienced meditators, but as you say, these aren't well documented in reputable literature. The meditation will almost invariable bring about some confronting self reflections as people seek what is sometimes a brutal truth, and great compassion and care is needed in navigating this.

There is no way of knowing though when people go on retreat how it's going to affect them until it does, most people I know it has been a positive experience.

Yes indeed. A well organised retreat that incorporates sound meditation techniques, such as the Vipassana which you mentioned, can be most rewarding and beneficial, though not without problems. It's likely that some form of duress will be experienced but that's expected as part of the healing process.

[anthony c]

Originally Posted by sunsoul

Meditation as in basic breath or mindful meditation is perfectly safe especially if taught in person by an instructor. It will help with any instabilities rather than hinder...

When you start talking about 'energy work' like focusing on chakras, raising kundalini or opening the third eye then I would strongly agree that these type of practices could cause some issues and I don't personally like to see them taught willy nilly or practised willy nilly..

I AGREE 100% WITH THIS AS THIS HAPPENED TOO ME.I THINK PEOPLE ARE NOT INFORMED OR THE DONT KNOW ABOUT ENERGY WORK AND WHEN MY THIRD EYE CHAKRA OPEN OR KUNDALINI ENERGY RISEN (SEE I DONT EVEN KNOW) I WAS NOT INFORMED WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON AND HAD HORRIBLE SIDE EFFECTS.I WAS LUCKY I FOUND HELP ON HERE AND MY SIDE EFFECTS WERE NOT SO BAD.

So, we have to be clear about what type of meditation we are talking about, what kind of person we are talking about, and the situation in itself which would vary according to circumstance.

[Emmalevine]

The Guardian and the Daily Fail.

Enough said.

This seems to be the thin end of a nasty little wedge - shrinks and medical people interfering in spiritual practices. As the DM supports taboo it's bound to take such issues up. It's a sign they're starting to get worried about spirituality affecting the establishment.

I worry that just as apparently in the 1960s it was allowed license until it threatened the status quo, then the authorities contrived enough laws and twists of laws to stamp on it. They never did stamp it out entirely but it was pushed into the background.

Hitherto, psychologists and medics have left spirituality alone, deciding that it's nonsense but does no harm. They might try to explain "the phenomenon" in their fatuous ways but they haven't interfered too much.

What seems the case here is that they're looking for new business plus increasing their stranglehold on people's lives. Few people here won't have noticed the increasing governmental erosion of personal freedom. Herbal medicines are increasingly under attack, health and safety concerns invade our lives and there's now a pressure to get rid of cash (upon which if a government chooses it can find out where you are, what you're spending your money on etc). Just a few instances.

People meditating means that more will awaken to the clamps they're held in which is not good for social control. Some of the negative effects spoken of in the o/p will almost certainly be reactions against such controls

I've worried for a time about authorities and NGOs interfering in spirituality and our practices, finally realising that we have something.

You see it here: "We want to change the world, fill it with love and peace!" - "Oh no you won't" says Mr Status Quo. "You, the electorate, are here to serve us, not take over."

We'd better keep a low profile.
...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

This seems to be the thin end of a nasty little wedge - shrinks and medical people interfering in spiritual practices. As the DM supports taboo it's bound to take such issues up. It's a sign they're starting to get worried about spirituality affecting the establishment.

The mindfulness has become a mainstream therapeutic tool, and it sure has its place, but the mainstream has dozens of effective tools. There is no single approach that resolves everything. I haven't heard anyone expressing distress about Eastern based approaches affecting the establishment, and such approaches are generally embraced.

I worry that just as apparently in the 1960s it was allowed license until it threatened the status quo, then the authorities contrived enough laws and twists of laws to stamp on it. They never did stamp it out entirely but it was pushed into the background.

I wasn't aware of that, but I remember Jung saying something about Westerners are risking their mental balance by practicing Eastern traditions...

Hitherto, psychologists and medics have left spirituality alone, deciding that it's nonsense but does no harm. They might try to explain "the phenomenon" in their fatuous ways but they haven't interfered too much.

As I say, mindfulness is, like, all the rage these days.

What seems the case here is that they're looking for new business plus increasing their stranglehold on people's lives. Few people here won't have noticed the increasing governmental erosion of personal freedom. Herbal medicines are increasingly under attack, health and safety concerns invade our lives and there's now a pressure to get rid of cash (upon which if a government chooses it can find out where you are, what you're spending your money on etc). Just a few instances.

People meditating means that more will awaken to the clamps they're held in which is not good for social control. Some of the negative effects spoken of in the o/p will almost certainly be reactions against such controls

I've worried for a time about authorities and NGOs interfering in spirituality and our practices, finally realising that we have something.

You see it here: "We want to change the world, fill it with love and peace!" - "Oh no you won't" says Mr Status Quo. "You, the electorate, are here to serve us, not take over."

We'd better keep a low profile.
...

'Spiritual society' has its own peculiar status quo.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Gem

I wasn't aware of that, but I remember Jung saying something about Westerners are risking their mental balance by practicing Eastern traditions...

This is true to some extent if the westerners mentioned are suffering from mental illnesses like bipolar disorders and are mentally unhealthy. There have been cases of this sort.

An another reason can be heavy prior religious conditioning. The inner conflict this generates can unbalance the mind as well. I know of an eastern christian woman who refuses to practice yogic traditions, though her own son is a yoga adept.


Carl Jung, it should be understood, was not enlightened. Though he profusely praised eastern spirituality, he acknowledged his incompetence in understanding it or the science of self-realization and avoided meeting Ramana Maharshi when he visited India.

He had also remarked that Hitler was a mystic and a seer, and had subtle anti-semitic views, which shows a conditioned mindset.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by ajay00

This is true to some extent if the westerners mentioned are suffering from mental illnesses like bipolar disorders and are mentally unhealthy. There have been cases of this sort.

Sure, I met a number of those who came to ashram who wanted a solution to their mental illness, but it's actually a higher spiritual path.

An another reason can be heavy prior religious conditioning. The inner conflict this generates can unbalance the mind as well. I know of an eastern christian woman who refuses to practice yogic traditions, though her own son is a yoga adept.

Well, dogmas are pretty hard to shift, and at the ashram there's still a lot of dogma, because dogma is like the founding stone of any spiritual organisation.

Carl Jung, it should be understood, was not enlightened. Though he profusely praised eastern spirituality, he acknowledged his incompetence in understanding it or the science of self-realization and avoided meeting Ramana Maharshi when he visited India.

He had also remarked that Hitler was a mystic and a seer, and had subtle anti-semitic views, which shows a conditioned mindset.

Well, I'll reserve judgment on Jung, but that's very interesting.

[The Back Seat]

It's not that meditation causes negative side effects, it's that meditation causes awareness.

Life deals us all types of experiences and they aren't always positive. Unaware people don't realize that these negative experiences can get trapped in us and reek havoc on your emotional and physical bodies. These energies can remain inside of us and lead to issues.

So what's happens when someone starts meditating (seriously, and repetitively)? They start to turn their focus (intent) inward, as opposed to outward (materialistic). So someone that has suffered previously in their life, will most likely find negativities that they didn't realize were there. these negative energies have been trapped in the emotional/physical body. Trapping energy in our bodies allows us to not experience them. While we may not have to experience trapped negative energies in our body, they stay there and damage our spirit.

So when we become inwardly aware, we allow these negative energies to flow. Flowing energy is energy that we feel, and experience. Therefore all that backed up negative energy must be allowed to flow before we can free ourselves of it. When we release that negative energy, we will feel it and it can be painful.

So, sometimes allowing ourselves to cry in response to negativity, is the best possible response. Crying is a natural channel to let negativity flow. With practice we find other grounding technique allow us to observe the negativities and just let them flow on by with out trapping them.

You will find stories about danger with meditation. But I can guarantee those stories come from first time experiences where the initial flow of trapped negative energy can be overwhelming. Ask anyone who is experienced with meditation, and they will most likely have positive things to say.

The initial awakening when we first experience that flow, is very intense. This experience is referred to as the spiritual awakening, and everyone's initial flow of trapped energy will be different. We must clean the house before is shines.

Meditation is simply a way of relaxing and opening up our awareness. What you intend you use it for, well that's up to you. If you want to use that awareness to cause pain, that is definitely possible. But people that open up awareness typically find that positive energy is the right path.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Gem

Well, dogmas are pretty hard to shift, and at the ashram there's still a lot of dogma, because dogma is like the founding stone of any spiritual organisation.

It is actually rules and principles of a methodology , which if observed with precision and faith, enables one to attain the spiritual results stated.

Dogma has not much of a place in an ashram, especially a buddhist one.

O monks and wise men, just as a goldsmith would test his gold by burning, cutting and rubbing it, so must you examine my words and accept them, not merely out of reverence for me. -- Buddha