Mastery of The Mind

[Riboflavin]

Originally Posted by not human

blah blah blah the sound of your mind is like fingers down a blackboard pal

Then turn your back and walk away.

Originally Posted by Riboflavin

Then turn your back and walk away.

No. You are absolutely right. I am out of line. I apologize.

Originally Posted by Riboflavin

Theres also another saying "seeing is believing". Some of the things i remember happening have never happened. (for example, for years i thought my dad drank pepsi for all the years ive known him, but only a couple weeks ago i found out hes been drinking coke all his life and has always done so as long as ive been with him).

You see for me my past and present are in flux. When i remember a funny movie ive watched, i have to actually wonder whether or not i really saw it, or whether or not what im seeing is really happening. Some of my childhood memories apparently never really happened either, or sometimes the faces of the people arnt the ones that were really there. Sometimes its frustrating. I dont know how what i "think" has anything more to do with it than what someone "thinks" has anything to do with their broken leg.

That is part of the illness you are going through right now. :)

Originally Posted by Riboflavin

Ill ask this as a secondary then, what if your "ego trip" is just an excuse for you to believe you have control over something you dont really have control over? You say that your delusions are caused by ego, but what if its only your ego that makes you think your ego is whats causing it? as if you can just not have an ego and thereby solve the problem when in reality the delusions continue to occur and theres nothing you can do about it? You may not give in to them, but if your still having them then fact is you dont control having them.

Whoa... ok, yes to the first part of that, totally agree.

If the delusions are continuing to occur, then you are still in the grip of the overblown inflation/delusion. I am not putting down mental illness, nor the ego, this is simply what I have observed form my own experiences.

If you are trying to believe you can control your delusions, then that will be a hard thing to do, because most of the time one is not in control.

Taking away the ego would get rid of most of the problem, but as Gem has implied, there is the deeper spiritual aspects to mental illness, which can be very primal, and I don't have enough of a grasp on that to make statements about it.

Apart from it being somewhat shamanic and linked to mysticism, going that deep I can't really define that in any measurable way, it is too deep into the psyche.

Originally Posted by Gem

There's quite a lot to it... you should know... and what you say is like saying dropping three trips and calling the hallucinations egotistic.

Thanks, I was forgetting to mention the deeper aspects of psychosis. Which I really have a hard time putting to words.

[Riboflavin]

Sorry enlightener i should have said hallucination rather than delusion. I meant to say if your still hallucinating then you cant control it. Also, believing what your seeing is real isnt necessarily a thing of ego either, the pepsi thing with my dad for example. I dont see how ego plays into that. A delusion is when you believe what your seeing is true when its not, in this case it wouldnt be ego driven (well not that i can see anyway). Sometimes thoughts get mixed up in my head and i say the wrong thing.. my posts are usually a mess when i first write them and i always edit but sometimes stuff still doesnt come out right and i can be unclear.

My point is though these things arnt driven by ideas but rather chemistry.

That's ok

Yes, chemistry probably has a role to play in it..

Originally Posted by Riboflavin

Sorry enlightener i should have said hallucination rather than delusion. I meant to say if your still hallucinating then you cant control it. Also, believing what your seeing is real isnt necessarily a thing of ego either, the pepsi thing with my dad for example. I dont see how ego plays into that. A delusion is when you believe what your seeing is true when its not, in this case it wouldnt be ego driven (well not that i can see anyway). Sometimes thoughts get mixed up in my head and i say the wrong thing.. my posts are usually a mess when i first write them and i always edit but sometimes stuff still doesnt come out right and i can be unclear.

My point is though these things arnt driven by ideas but rather chemistry.

i appreciate this conversation with Enlightner, and your openess about mental illness.

The first time i really had a kind of epiphany about this was watching a movie called "The Fisherking" with Robin Williams in the main role His portrayal of a man hallucinating a tiger made me see HIS reality, meaning it was no less real for him then the dog at my feet is for me. And how unexceptable to me it would be for someone to tell me i am hallucinating the dog. Some heavy duty thinking went into walking in those mocassins, it does not mean i am any kind of expert at all, only empathetic.

Originally Posted by SunnyHaze

is that possible to master your mind ?

Not believing everything the past conditioned mind says is a good start. This is where I am personally.

3d

[Lazarus72]

Originally Posted by Gem

Not important.

Is there an abiding self controlling the mind? It doesn't matter. These posings are philosophies and the debate has two sides, but how unimportant it is, and how dogmatic are such viewpoints.

The abilities of intention, concentration, attention and openess are there.

Well, actually I think it is important because when starting by posing the statement 'who' as was done, there is an intrinsic assumption that there is someone. In that instance You don't even get as far as the two sided debate ....... which I agree is ultimately fairly unimportant. But that was the point anyway, and not really dogmatic. Logical.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Lazarus72

Well, actually I think it is important because when starting by posing the statement 'who' as was done, there is an intrinsic assumption that there is someone. In that instance You don't even get as far as the two sided debate ....... which I agree is ultimately fairly unimportant. But that was the point anyway, and not really dogmatic. Logical.

The important thing as I see it is, not the points of view, but the faculty at hand.

The world of spiritualizm where all nature of guru, religion and belief, all vieing to influence created schools of thought, and ideas which have no grounding such as 'ego' 'self' 'God'... can only ever be a construct of thoughts forming an invented defined entity... There are no egos and selfs and gods running around there apart from the thoughts that construct them.

There is awareness of thoughts and all these constructs are partial ideas.

So... the important thing, as I see it is in the OP.

"Let the gurus tell us so we chase their rainbows upon desire for fabled gold.

Otherwize...

Be the master of your own mind."