Indigenous Spirit of All colors

[sentient]

My first criticism about the Lyon’s books (from ‘our’ Shamanic perspective) - is: “Thinking with your heart &, not with your mind”.) And this ‘romantic’ notion has become so widespread, it has become meaningless imo.

The Vajrayana Buddhist version of this is: “When you bring the head and the heart together, a sense of being takes place there”.
In other words, you do not disregard/deny any parts of yourself as one better than the other.

In a ‘shamanic sense’ opening one’s heart and emptying one’s mind (non-thought) IS to be an absolutely neutral and unbiased sounding-board to experience, or sensing the energies of the situation.

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Originally Posted by sentient

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm1O0EPQH_0

Anything you’d like to add, point out, address, discuss, correct or validate in them ImthatIm?

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I'll point out some things on this vid. first.
I can tell he's been around Lakota ceremonies and I understand what he is saying and he speaks in some slang.
I can't say I disagree with anything he said.But I would have questions for him about some things he said.
Shoot it's his experience though.
But I would question the 16th level curing all sickness.
Or at least the way he put it..Some people just won't allow a cure let alone a healing.
I think he was blowing the 16th level out of proportion.He could have been told it that way though.
I know of the Chips family and of Wallace Black Elk.

At a certain point I thought, I'll bet He has a Chanunpa/Sacred Pipe.
When he whipped his out to show it off, I was sent into a "Oh no you didn't".
I immediately thought he should honorably take that to the Chips family or another honorable family and return it in a good way.
I believe the Lakota Spiritual leaders are still against that type of display, especially if they seen him show it off on camera to impress.
I certainly felt they were pimping books.
Also what did he do in Australia?

But other than the stuff I mentioned it was alright but I am not a person he would have to answer to.
Oh and I was uncomfortable about some of the ceremony stuff he talked about.
But he was for the most part accurate to my knowledge.
The 5 sticks ceremony threw me off for awhile but I believe I know that one from it's Lakota name and never heard it called that.

Here is how this elder feels.
https://indiancountrytoday.com/archi...dhere-to-today

I could go on and on with some Blah,Blah, but I'll spare you.


Oh, I remembered another vid. from NOT a Medicine Man on the Sacred Pipe.
Loved this guy ever since I first checked out one of his vids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDiPtT4vY-M

Originally Posted by sentient

The Vajrayana Buddhist version of this is: “When you bring the head and the heart together, a sense of being takes place there”.
In other words, you do not disregard/deny any parts of yourself as one better than the other.
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Yeah, I just figured he/Lyon's in the vid. meant it like aligning the Head and the Heart both in a balanced and correct way.(Hollow bone like)

Originally Posted by sentient

I plead guilty to altruist naïve idealism and romanticism.

All indig. people have some “medicine power” & imo. this is quite true. But mere psychic or astral travel abilities do not a Shaman or a Nagual make.

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Oh, I am guilty of many things also.. I do my best to learn on the fly.
I still romanticize I just call it Hope now...LOL..


All peoples have a medicine and a purpose.
To some it comes quick and natural and people like me come into it sloooow.(Like a good stew)


You are correct everyone does not become Shaman or Nagual.
Though many will make claims.

The word medicine in Indian country is a bit generalized IMO. It can be used to describe many things. Medicine bag, Medicine shield, good Medicine, bad medicine.
A Medicine Power, Deer Medicine, Bear Medicine you can liken it to energy and or essence and or quality I suppose.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Also what did he do in Australia?

Don’t know – had never heard of the man until I stumbled upon that youtube video.

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Yeah, I just figured he/Lyon's in the vid. meant it like aligning the Head and the Heart both in a balanced and correct way.(Hollow bone like)

Perhaps the expression “thinking with the heart” was first given when trying to point out how the “white man” is so in his head, conceptualizing and intellectualizing everything - so much so that ‘he’ cannot feel any spirit presences …
But to say that “the channeller goes deep into the heart” – is just imagined; - surely (?) … as it doesn’t really say anything about the real practice. The “hollow bone” does. ‘You’ just open up and become empty of yourself …. to channel. Like the perfectly still lake mirrors.

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About the Spirits coming in and making a lot of noise.
Well, that happened when I recognized my Totem. The “Portal” opened. So, I sort of know how that is. But I would classify that as “Lower World”.
So that is why one does/needs Ceremonies!
I do not do ceremonies nor attend any.

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"Upper World" doesn't need ceremonies, but it utilizes all one's "power".
And the more "power" one gives away - the more one gets.
So it really is "power of no power", since the self cannot pocket it.

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[sentient]

Upper, Middle and Lower Worlds

Don’t know about others, but this talk is rather level headed imo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbOcyrqJ2jg

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[sentient]

Vision Quest:

One ‘Native’ worded it this way:
“To seek vision for the direction in your life”.

Bill worded it as:
“In earlier times everyone sought “medicine power”, it was normal to have one. Medicine men or women had more power”.

A Vision Quest is also undertaken by those wishing to seek and identify a Power Animal to help them as a spiritual guide to walk through different stages of life for the purpose of teaching and guiding them, and in some instances protecting them.

A vision usually comes in the form of what Native Americans call an Animal Totem.

OK.
Once again, I trust this is the “Lower World” since that Totem Animal can be any animal really, depending on the individual.


The “Upper World” works quite the opposite. The definition is more like a “horse looking for a rider”. You don’t seek it – it seeks you out and the “Upper World” Power Animals are quite fixed, since the “Guardian Angel” is the “White Horse” ” i.e. it is the same for every initiate.

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sentient
Yeah, I never heard it like that Lyon's guy told it "to catch a Spirit".
I understood what he was saying, but it was just a part.
Of course anything I say or that you read will only be a part.
The vision quest is done for many reasons.
First it is/was done as a coming of age rite, to ask for some direction in Life.
Vision quest is also called a fast or going up on the hill/mountain.
In Lakota it is Haŋblečeya

A little vision quest video that tells a few reasons for vision quest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FySH1pFlUs

The Lower world? Sure but to my understanding the lower world is only 1 of the 6.
All ceremony that I can remember always is inviting in the Spirit's of 6 directions.
The 7th direction being the center.
Remember this sphere? This pertains to all ceremony that I have been involved in.

Tunkashila's would be the Higher Powers from above upper world.
Unci Maka or (Mother Earth and Grandmother Earth) would be the Lower world Spirit's and of course the man/center is the middle world which includes W,N,E,S the universe.
Wakan Tanka is represented in the up direction but Wakan Tanka is in all 7 and beyond making it fitting that Wakan Tanka is called the Great Mystery.
As I understand it all worlds are represented in the 7 directions.
But I have no problem if a ceremony is being mostly lower world or all lower world.
I never took the time to label categorize or even ask many questions.





Always remember I only know pieces.
Also all this may not correlate or translate very well.

sentient
Here is a nice little piece I read that comes from something written on a N.Black Elk quote which helps explain vision quest to my understanding.

{But perhaps the most important reason for "lamenting/vision questing" is that it helps us to realize our oneness with all things, to know
that all things are our relatives: and then in behalf of all things we pray to Wakan Tanka that he may give to us knowledge of Him who
is the Source of all things, yet greater than all things.}

[sentient]

Like you wrote earlier about the Russian video:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

4. Loved the burning of offerings with the huge fires.The community involvement was Heart warming.

I thought the community involvement and the communal responsibility expressed here was beautiful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCdcfxi9vQ
Bill kind of totally missed the collective context to the “vision quest” making it almost sound like shamen are into “one-upmanship-powers” …

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I never took the time to label categorize or even ask many questions.

I do know what you mean, yet -when one receives a ('telepathic') message from somebody in the Middle World, it has a different energetic feel than when receiving a ('telepathic') message from somebody who has passed and is in the Lower World. Spirit guidance from the Upper World has a different “Energy Signature“ to it as well.
They are all ‘other dimensional’ communications, but with subtle energetic differences one learns to discern. Like: "Hey, where is this coming from?".

Though no explanation is perfect … pages 25 and 26 of:
https://books.google.dm/books?id=2Tn...g e&q&f=false

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Always remember I only know pieces.

I think we all only know pieces, trying to piece them together like this man with his charts heh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COuOD-S9w6g

My ancestors dwelling:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...NrHrE&usqp=CAU

With Upper World one puts emphasis on Sacred Space (portals).
With Lower World one puts emphasis on Sacred Earth (portals).

It is just that when the Amerind lingo is borrowed, copied and popularized by New Agers - all one ever hears is the “Sacred Earth” and how we are all children of the Sacred now, singing our Sacred Earth Songs, drumming to the heartbeat of the Sacred Mother Earth etc. etc. Of course!, Earth is Sacred, but it only gives ½ of the big ‘picture’.

Thought these “World Tree” images are quite good:
https://cdn5.vectorstock.com/i/1000x...r-28924254.jpg

The Celtic:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/73/fc...e5baaf8700.jpg

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