No God

[Gem]

The Buddhist religion is quite unique among the mainstream religions because it is not based on God.


I know there are Bells and whistles and Buddhism is as confused as any other religion, but I did my time studying meditation and we had many different people from all different religions attend our retreats, including Buddhist monks from various other sects.



The idea is, the teachings of the Buddha are not sectarian, but universal, so it doesn't matter what religion you are. You are breathing just like anyone else and you can observe the breath regardless of your religious beliefs. Indeed there is nothing to believe - you just feel the sensation of yourself breathing -

[django]

I've actually been thinking about this a bit for a few days, both God and all deities are most likely just human inventions as far as I can understand.

I don't fundamentally agree with the Buddha's conclusions though, I think there is more to it than that, but not in the form of deities, more in the form of our personal energy bodies and fulfilling their existing potential. I reject accepting things as they are, I prefer striving to realise our potential.

[Shivani Devi]

With trepidation, this Hindu walks into the Buddhist forum, where the topic up for discussion is the (non) existence of God.

There are a few points of interest, in that according to the Vajrayana tradition of Tibetan Buddhism, tribal deities still exist and are still worshiped as "Gods" in that "God" represents any supernatural or supernal being (Deva) possessing mystical powers and attributes ascribed to the notion of a "Transcendent Divinity".

....but yes, we are speaking about notions, concepts, ideas, perceptions whichever way it goes; "God" or "No God"...."Self" or "No Self" for if God does not exist, then neither does Buddha...I see many people worship Buddha AS God...waving incense, offering prostration....venerating the noble one, but what have they done? They have just replaced one concept "God" with another "Buddha".

That is why the saying exists; "If you see Buddha on the road, kill him"...
"If you see God on the road, kill him.."

...and maybe you will find that it isn't as easy to kill a Buddha or a God as one may think...maybe you will succeed and then God will come back to life..."missed me"!

Whatever we like to think is just the ego...the ego says there is a God...the ego says there is no God...that is why Buddha would say "there is a God" or "there is no God" depending on who was asking the question of "Does God exist?" Buddha would only say whatever that person wanted to hear because in the end and at a personal level, what an individual believes is all that matters to them.

Like you said to me once, Gem...you quoted "The Boxer" from Simon and Garfunkel "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

So, if a man believes in God, he will only hear those who say that God exists..if a man does not believe in God, he will only hear those who will say that God does not exist.

[winter light]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

With trepidation, this Hindu walks into the Buddhist forum, where the topic up for discussion is the (non) existence of God.

There are a few points of interest, in that according to the Vajrayana tradition of Tibetan Buddhism, tribal deities still exist and are still worshiped as "Gods" in that "God" represents any supernatural or supernal being (Deva) possessing mystical powers and attributes ascribed to the notion of a "Transcendent Divinity".

I have trepidation every time I walk here also. For slightly different reasons. I have the same issue you have about being a Hindu out of your element and never finding a place where you belong. Except in my case it is more being aligned with Buddhism on the inner more than the outer. By all outer measures I have zero standing as a Buddhist. I am hardly able to meditate and I feel very disconnected from the culture as I was raised Christian. Yet I have experiences that are clearly mirror those cultures as if I was a part of it. I can only conclude that I am a part of it and try to dismiss the seeming reality I am stuck in.

....but yes, we are speaking about notions, concepts, ideas, perceptions whichever way it goes; "God" or "No God"...."Self" or "No Self" for if God does not exist, then neither does Buddha...I see many people worship Buddha AS God...waving incense, offering prostration....venerating the noble one, but what have they done? They have just replaced one concept "God" with another "Buddha".

It is not so much they replaced it but they have expanded it. They are not exclusive. The Hindu and Buddhist worlds are still part of one another.

That is why the saying exists; "If you see Buddha on the road, kill him"...
"If you see God on the road, kill him.."

...and maybe you will find that it isn't as easy to kill a Buddha or a God as one may think...maybe you will succeed and then God will come back to life..."missed me"!

Nice double meaning here.... I did not miss that.

Whatever we like to think is just the ego...the ego says there is a God...the ego says there is no God...that is why Buddha would say "there is a God" or "there is no God" depending on who was asking the question of "Does God exist?" Buddha would only say whatever that person wanted to hear because in the end and at a personal level, what an individual believes is all that matters to them.

I do not think the Buddha was telling people "what they want to hear" but rather trying to tread carefully and speak to them in a language they understand. It was sincere.

Like you said to me once, Gem...you quoted "The Boxer" from Simon and Garfunkel "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

So, if a man believes in God, he will only hear those who say that God exists..if a man does not believe in God, he will only hear those who will say that God does not exist.

People will tend to rise to the expectations we give to them if given a chance. It requires a tremendous amount of patience to do this though. And a lot of breathing though the issues before responding. At least that is what I try to do in hopes that it will happen. Namaste.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by django

I've actually been thinking about this a bit for a few days, both God and all deities are most likely just human inventions as far as I can understand.

I don't fundamentally agree with the Buddha's conclusions though, I think there is more to it than that, but not in the form of deities, more in the form of our personal energy bodies and fulfilling their existing potential. I reject accepting things as they are, I prefer striving to realise our potential.

You could also follow a distinction between a creator god and deities in general. From a spiritual perspective there is easily room for higher, powerful beings that may carry a 'god' or 'goddess' title, something that returns also in (some) Buddhist beliefs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_deities), but this is not the same as a ''creator God'', which is fundamental in Abrahamic religion and various Hindu beliefs.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Altair

You could also follow a distinction between a creator god and deities in general. From a spiritual perspective there is easily room for higher, powerful beings that may carry a 'god' or 'goddess' title, something that returns also in (some) Buddhist beliefs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_deities), but this is not the same as a ''creator God'', which is fundamental in Abrahamic religion and various Hindu beliefs.

Why I said what I did in my previous post and why I decided to post on this thread in the first place..

Please be patient and hear me out.

In the Hindu belief, the "Creator God" is called Brahma, the "Preserver God" is called Vishnu and the "Destroyer God" is called Shiva.

There really isn't a "one size fits all" as far as the Hindu pantheon is concerned, although it isn't uncommon for followers of one Deity to say that all other Deities are merely manifestations/avatars of their chosen celestial representative...but I digress.

Another name for Lord Shiva is Maha Kala or the Lord of Time...often seen dancing as Nataraja within the "cosmic clock circle" or as a fierce, terrible Deity called Kala Bhairava or "The Black Lord". In Tibetan Tantric Buddhism, particularly the Bon Tradition, Lord Shiva is worshiped as Maha Kala Bernagchen "The Black-Cloaked Time Lord" who looks for all the world like the Hindu version of Bhairava Shiva..in fact, they could be twins from different mothers.

As well as being known as Maha Kala, Lord Shiva is also called Maharaja Dewata...or The King of the Devas...so whatever these Devas/Gods/Demigods are ..there is one who stands out, way above and beyond the rest of them as far as power and spiritual attainment is concerned.

Then we also have the Dharmapalas or the "Lords of Dharma" which are considered to be "Gods" as they came from the mind of Vairochana who is the ancient, primordial Buddha...the Buddha of Buddhas..where all Buddhas get their Buddha-hood from....aka..."GOD"...it is also very strange how linguistically, the word "Vairochana" is a dialectical variation of the word "Bhairava"...but that is a story for another day.

[r6r6]

django--I've actually been thinking about this a bit for a few days, both God and all deities are most likely just human inventions as far as I can understand.

God is another word for Universe and if our finite, occupied space Universe expands and contracts, then that is similar to breathing as the lungs expand and contract when we breath.

At the peak of contraction of lungs ---Ex-Spiration--- wesee increase of layers of outer surface Gravity ( ) increasing to create the largest possible black hole that is referred to some as a singularity. ((((*))))

At the peak of expansion of the lungs ---In-Spiration--- we have entropic heat death ---via Dark Energy )(--- where all fermionic matter and bosonic forces have been dispersed as one very large and very flat{ lowest frequency } photon.


Eternity is to time, ---/\/\/----


As infinite is to space, ---Space( )( )Space---

[Gem]

........................

[Gem]

The primary concern being the resolution of suffering, purification, and liberation or nirvana, one could question the relevance of God. One can include the relevance of the person, but Buddhism is not helpful when it comes to self-theory either. Buddhism's fundamental premise is misery arises from ignorance - but don't misconstrue that - the interwoven facets of the 12 dependent origins are more subtle that the blunt premise. People can Google the dependent origins if they give a damn, or otherwise, just understand that 'ignorance' refers to an incomplete awareness. It makes no difference if you have a deep understanding of the philosophy, or a layman's grasp such as mine, or if you've never heard of it before. This is a topic of conversation in which all that could be discussed, or not, and something else cqan be talked about. What matters is the truth. Truthfulness. To know yourself by being mindfully aware, and no making excused, judgments and justifications about it. Simply knowing what is true in the immediate sense, like I know this is a long breath or I know it is a short breath. Please don't think I'm only refering to the breath ;literally, because I use it figuratively to illustrate that you are utterly doubtless that 'this' is the experience, but doubtful regarding your God(s). Doubt is the bedfellow of faith. I believe things which I doubt are true, indeed, I'm certain they are not true. They are like stories I can use to make sense of things. Some stories are self-defeating and I know they are not true, but I still believe them in the sense that I live as if they are.


All your stories about 'me' are quite as inane as you beliefs in God. Some stories are positive and useful for confidence and so forth, and some stories are self-hateful useless and destructive. None of them are actually true. The truth is not told as a story. The sages have said it is ineffable, yet it is true that this breath coming in feels precisely like 'this'.

[r6r6]

In-Spiration <---/\/\/\/<--- Past

Past------------>\/\/\/\---> Ex{out}Spiration

..Space( Time *) i (* Time )Space....

' i ' is the metaphysical-1, odd-ball 'me', that, is beyond Space ( )( ) and Time /\/\/

" U "niverse and " G " od inclusive of ' i '

Uni-V-erse / G-O-D is exclusive of ' i '.

My { 'me' } local universe, as personal sphere-of-influence, is my own private Idaho may or may not induce thoughts of God / Universe.

[quote=r6r6r]God is another word for Universe

At the peak of contraction of lungs ---Ex-Spiration--- wesee increase of layers of outer surface Gravity ( ) increasing to create the largest possible black hole that is referred to some as a singularity. ((((*))))

At the peak of expansion of the lungs ---In-Spiration--- we have entropic heat death ---via Dark Energy )(--- where all fermionic matter and bosonic forces have been dispersed as one very large and very flat{ lowest frequency } photon.[/quote