Saami People of Norway, Finland and Sweden and Joiking

[sentient]

Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen

I'm down a rabbit hole with the Perm style artifacts from post #47...

It is interesting that it caught your interest ...

IF one can speak about a connection between Euros and Amerinds via the “Mal’ta Boy”, then Udmurts, – those Permians would be the closest to that “Malta boy”, if I remember correctly:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25020958

I think it was them, from whom we have also got the Earth Diver creation myth.
And Spider the weaver who at the same time can be or is a trickster and a saviour … depending …
Something, something sort of similarish …

And those, maybe a group of totemic moose clan men in a moose-head-boat?
Don’t or didn’t yous have something similar? Canoe or boat animal figureheads?

& Who are these? The proud ancestral moose-clan men? (Hope these links work):
https://www.dreamstime.com/snow-cove...image206924822

This totem-polyish “Alley of majestic idols at Sami Village, Murmansk, Russia” looks new agey, and somewhat ‘pretendian’ tourist trap :
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-p..._source=schema

…. but the roots of those go way back:
https://t1.thpservices.com/previewim...v-10419179.jpg

… to the:
https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blo...oden-sculpture

[sentient]

eezi-ulgen,
Those Permian animal style objects would look fantastic if they were made into large carved wooden reliefs, like the ones Salish Coast relief panel carvers for example do:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...BwhjLxGWe3.jpg

If I was looking at that image from a potential Permian point of view, the 4 segments underneath the face might suggest a female face. Males would have 5 segments.
But that would just be imagining this, because of the ‘scent’ of similarity.

And looking at the “Alley of majestic idols at Sami Village, Murmansk, Russia”, which really are kitsch idols for the tourists, still, one can see they had been made by Komi-Saami mixed people.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qi...e8cd5cab9-pjlq

Because many of those Permian ‘idols’ were made for ceremonial purposes, one has to be careful when copying them.
I made a large painting of one once, (not one of those, but an image a bit closer to home) – hanged it on the wall, when a freak wind behind my unit arose & it went straight to the painting in the living room, ripped it off the wall and onto the floor with a loud bang.
Freaked out at that point, I quickly painted over it with a sealer/primer.

Not evil, not sorcery, but paranormal nevertheless - something totemic & shamanic anyways, which reminds me of the Amerind “shaking tent” ceremonies.
We also had something similar to that.

I found this touching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M-t...annel=jasonyup

Perhaps this is why the Somby Saami guy keeps on singing his “name-sake” wolf songs …. If the wolf is alright, he is alright ……

[sentient]

Just how much had Kola Saami potentially integrated Komi beliefs into their world view or ‘repertoire’ - don’t know. But this made me wonder how much had Old Norse beliefs influenced the Norwegian Saami.

Even though I find this bloke a bit difficult to follow, he comes up with some pretty amazing stuff:

The parts that make the self:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP8...ithH%C3%A4rger

The Animal Fylgja – a Nordic concept closest to the animal totem ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Xb...ithH%C3%A4rger

Here the out-of-the-body journeys might be of use. Even though it is possible to tap into the collective subconscious of another people’s culture, (like ‘channelling’), generally the things that show up shows us who we are and the culture we find our belonging in. And if some different, out of the norm visions repeatedly pop up, check out that mystery ancestor in your family line ….

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by sentient

It is interesting that it caught your interest ...

Everything in post #51 has had my interest for some time...
The perm style spider and how the perm style art reminded me of the flowing and connecting style of the NW coastal style art carvings that capture the interconnection of Spirit and form....

My wife's culture has the deer heads on their canoe...

NW coastal native canoe with deer head...
https://clivedevenishantiques.com/wp...9/IMG_9407.jpg

Also your last image on post 351 was where my thinking went because I was intrigued by that carving last year I believe,
so it was funny that you linked to it because I was going to link you to it...
Another link to the 12,000+ year old Spirit pole "the Shigir Idol"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=T0fVzBGYUoY

I'll leave off with the worlds oldest musical instrument found (60,000 yrs. old)...
It was made by our oldest known ancestral scientists the Neanderthal who made the first scientific produced glue(You can look the glue up on your own)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHXV07YCGKY

P.S. to me all these interests even though they stray from the Sami joik. in my mind they are connected in
the many ways man connects and passes down the various forms of Sacred connection...

[sentient]

Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen

I'll leave off with the worlds oldest musical instrument found (60,000 yrs. old)...
It was made by our oldest known ancestral scientists the Neanderthal who made the first scientific produced glue...

As long as people hunted and gathered these bear rituals from Neanderthal times didn’t change much …
Cave bear rituals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trkn...llFound ation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stlx...IrishinFinland

Interestingly enough, the first time I ever ‘journeyed’ – with no specific intent in mind but just to see if it could be done, I kinda centered and balanced myself first and then whooooosh - I was flying up in the air above this deep ravine. On the top of the ravine was an old run down, more like a hunting shed, but made of logs, which I examined. Then looking down into the ravine, there was something dark and rectangle shaped moving there. Flying down I saw it was a bear. Followed the bear and it took me to this one tree. There were offerings pinned onto the trunk of that tree. After examining it, I didn’t know what to do next – should I perhaps go up that tree? But NO!!! - a really strong, like cyclonic wind blowing sideways picked me up and hurried me out of there.
Later I thought that must have been the bear-skull-tree the bear had shown me.

Then the first time I ‘journeyed’ within a group, this new age shamanic circle heh. It was the moose that now appeared who then showed me the tree that would be willing to be trained to send the moose spirit back up to heavens … by burying its bones under it.
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...3&postcount=40

Although our totems, neither the bear nor the moose are my ‘totems’.

Have been to that ravine of my first journey on another OBE-occasion also, flying over a Lapland landscape (which I painted after the journey), a place I had never seen, but later as I discovered my Forest Saami relatives and then looked up on the net where they come from - OMG my painting!

So, when that Nicholls guy told the story about journeying up to Norway and seeing an island shaped like a boot but the other way round than the Italy boot … and then looking it up on the net to verify … I thought yeah, tell me about it!

There is truth to journeying … Harner seems to take people to fantasy lands, but Nicholls, well he at least seems to have had genuine experiences …

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by sentient

Not evil, not sorcery, but paranormal nevertheless - something totemic & shamanic anyways, which reminds me of the Amerind “shaking tent” ceremonies.
We also had something similar to that.

I've been to shaking tent ceremonies (Northern Cree) which is very akin to the yuwipi (Lakota) which I have a theory that what's called the dark tent ceremonies are all very related and are a North circumpolar practice and the Bear is one of the main Spirit teachers and healers of the dark tent societies...So in North Europe, North Asia and North America, I see interrelated through the dark tent ceremonies and the Bear...Which all these peoples have Neanderthal DNA which I think these ceremonies survive from and have branched out from......Just sharing a couple of theories I have that make me ponder things...

Shaking tent
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/2...b79e9d~mv2.jpg

...Peace...

[sentient]

Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen

Shaking tent
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/2...b79e9d~mv2.jpg

What a great image eezi-ulgen, what a gem!

Last night I also went looking for images and found this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/34/db...154fe2c9d7.jpg
How similar and familiar the story ….

We have about 200 (is the word pseudonym?) - names for the bear to talk about it, but so as not to summon it …
We also say that “forest moves”, when there is a bear moving in the forest.
Love this picture also from the Northwest Coast called the “Eldest Son” here. The bear is maybe listening turning its head, but it is like from “I am listening” to (silencing the mind) “the forest is listening” - *shift* of expanded listening perspective ….
https://i.ibb.co/8PZBHNh/eldest-son.jpg

I see interrelated through the dark tent ceremonies and the Bear.

And the wolf – no?:
https://i.ibb.co/vV9Q358/Northern-Lights.jpg

There are the stories and then there are the ‘journeys’, which despite the new age are best not altogether be thrown out, like the baby with the bathwater … and then there are the situations when as if ‘checkmated’ by the 7 directions - that ancestral connection makes its appearance, makes itself known …

Love the way – in your picture eezi-ulgen, the bear has 3 bubbles coming out of its month, the tent is like when the 4th bubble hits or am I just imagining and arrogantly distorting things here …. (???)

Also love this song, elements in it a ‘journey’ in itself.
The light and fluffy foreground set in the deep background and the emphasis on 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAyl...FireCrow-Topic

Best not assume or come to any conclusions about similarities, just taking note of elements …

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by sentient

And the wolf – no?:
https://i.ibb.co/vV9Q358/Northern-Lights.jpg

Yes and no...In the traditions I have been apart of which I will call "Dark Tent Ceremonies" and Dark Tent Ceremonies is a term that I read that is used by the intellectuals that classify ceremonies of various peoples that are North circumpolar Ceremonies that are held in the dark...I have never heard it used in real Life...
Anywho when attending Ceremonies of a Dark tent variety which I'm speaking from experience, of the Lakota (Yuwipi,Lawampi,and Purification Lodge) the Cree (Shaking Tent and Purification Lodge) the Anishinaabe/Chippewa (Midewiwin Lodge and Purification Lodge) and others that are under the classification of the Dark Tent...All the former Ceremonies are performed in total darkness and for the purpose of healing and or searching for things and or answers to a dilemma of importance...

I've said all that to say that I cannot recall one time that a Wolf Spirit was called in for such purposes in a Dark Tent Ceremony...So strictly speaking from the perspective of a Dark Tent Ceremony performed on this side of the North hemisphere the Bear is Chief of the Healing Spirits used in Dark Tent...
The Bear is Chief of the Medicines and Foods and is closest to Human in behavior by standing and walking on 2 legs...Also the Bear has the Winter sleep in the Spirit world that gives him that knowledge to transverse or transcend the realms or dimensions...All of the Medicine people I have been in Dark Tent Ceremonies with used and called in the Bear and always said he was Chief of Medicines...

The Wolf I would say is a Chief in it's own purposes...Yes??
I cannot speak from experience on the Wolf, only that I wear and would depend on it's fur for keeping warm...I know Wolf is Brother to Humans in many ways, but Bear is Chief Medicine in the Dark Tent Ceremonies, at least the ones I have been in...
Whew...

https://www.thehorsemanfoundation.or...-medicine-bear

P.S. the above opinions I wrote about are based on my experience but please keep in mind that this is from a layman's perspective and I am talking of others cultural beliefs that have been told to me...So if I misrepresent anything, I offer my apologies in advance...

...Peace...

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by sentient

Best not assume or come to any conclusions about similarities, just taking note of elements …

Totally agree...

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen

Dark Tent Ceremonies is a term that I read that is used by the intellectuals that classify ceremonies of various peoples that are North circumpolar Ceremonies that are held in the dark...

Here is one of the papers that I first read about certain Ceremonies being refereed to as Dark Tent...Also you will see that there is also Light Tent which is not conducted in the Dark...

I'm not sure if it will open without a account, but holding my fingers crossed.
https://www.academia.edu/42638588/Dark_Tent_and_Light_Tent_Two_Ways_of_Travelling_in _the_Invisible

If this link don't work, sorry...I tried googling other places that may speak on Dart Tent & Light Tent but I was unsuccessful in finding anything that refers to the Dark Tent and Light Tent references that lump many Northern circumpolar ceremonies together with their similarities...
I can however copy a map where the purple represents the Dark Tent and the yellow represents the Light Tent...
https://html.scribdassets.com/8qh84b...4156d6e1d6.jpg