Hell

[Molearner]

Incidentally by creating a wave we are all creators……

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

Thanks for that post I'm following your logic better now. Makes sense.

You're welcome, and it's good to be on the same page.

During severe emotional trauma the ego can 'collapse' into the self, it's a survival thing. What can then happen is that the person floats around like a rudderless ship in a storm - no doubt you've seen that when someone loses the person they love or there's a relationship break-up.

Very briefly, in Jung's model the self is the ego and it's 'contents', the unconscious and its 'contents', and the Shadow Self. The two main 'roles' of the ego are to provide a reference point from which we have a perceptual reality and to act as an interface between out inner and outer realities. Without an ego we're a bit like a spaceman floating around, with no idea which way is up or left.

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

Vision is the strongest sense in most people so we somehow imagine ourselves to be right behind the eyes. Centered in the head. The strongest senses are in the head, vision, hearing, and taste.... and of course thought is produced in the brain. So it feels like we exist in the head somehow.

For most people, yes, but Spirituality and meditation can bring people out of that state of mind. Just being mindful of other people can help too. it's really not that difficult.

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

The spiritual "I am" you were mentioning. Seems to me there is a knowing of myself, as that which is aware, imagined up near the head, perhaps right behind the eyes.

So does the spiritual "I am" have a sense of self without the ego? Seems to me I do. I can let go of thought and thinking. Let go of the past or memory. Not be feeling any emotions. Just be. And here and now, know I exist as this unique and singular point of perception and awareness.

I've just been talking about this in another thread. There's a kind of knowing that goes beyond the usual brain activities and some are aware of it. However, the tricky part is how the individual experiences it - but 'experience' isn't the right word. Where we 'experience' it seems to be just as individual. If yours is coming from right between your eyes then you're into Third Eye territory, which means insight - there's plenty of it on Google. The important thing is realising the difference between that and 'regular' thoughts. And by the way, it also shows a high degree of self-awareness.

The 'Spiritual I am' is just the regular I am/ego and when the word 'Spiritual' is used as a prefix that's the person's ego attaching status. Spirituality lights up the same areas of the brain as schizophrenia. so I'll leave you that thought. The I am that is Spiritual is the ego, where you are a part of existence. There's also a 'place' beyond that where there is no sense of 'I', there's just a sense of being existence itself. If that makes sense, because it's really difficult to put into words.

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

I posted before, "I am" is not the end of that sentence or concept. I Am as what is the question. What are you here as? "I am"... what? Thought? Emotion? Memory? Interpretation? Judgement? Yea all of that is ego. But if you are here and now as nothing at all. As nothing other than what you are, awareness. If you are here now not identified with any of the content, aware of it yes, seeing it yes, but not adding or subtracting, doing nothing at all, not having an opinion or idea about anything. Just aware of it.

The problem with the discussion of the ego is that it gets labelled as the bad guy by people who need something to point the finger at. Ego is "I am," it's the centre of your field of consciousness and everything else is the 'contents' of your ego. Your thoughts, your emotions, your judgements are all 'generated' by an aspect of you - what you identify with or not is not decided by you but by your unconscious - and your unconscious is an aspect of you. All of that then bubbles up to the surface via your awareness to become the 'contents' of your ego.

The mind treats all of those emotions, thoughts, knowledge, realisations etc. as 'things' and possessions. Spirituality becomes a 'thing', we attain enlightenment in the way we attain our wages at the end of the month if we work hard. All of this is ego, all of this are the 'contents' of the ego. Through these 'things' you become a 'thing' yourself.

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

I am is here in the purest and realest sense. One is more aware of what they are, not less.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Molearner

It is the ego that places us on an island.

Not THE ego, ONE'S ego with its 'contents' - that's the understanding.

Originally Posted by Molearner

It filters and restricts our POV.

If if didn't restrict and filter your POV your brain would melt and leak out of your ears because of the sheer volume of data that is processed at any given moment. And by the way, 'Spiritual' is a filter. It's the "What?", the "How?" and the reasons that makes the difference.

Originally Posted by Molearner

Theoretically if I was to say that I am anything I might say that I am everything….past, present and future. All of creation could be viewed as a pebble dropping in the ocean creating a circle of waves. As part of the ocean I have been baptized by every wave. That is who I am but I remain ignorant.

Everything 'beyond' I am is the 'contents' of your ego.

You are not part of the ocean, you ARE the ocean.

Originally Posted by PureEvil760

The way God works is simply that we punish ourselves as long as we desire something else. All of hell and negativity are our own individual creations.

The problem with religion is they believe in belief, not hard factual reality. Humanity as we know it is technically in hell right now because the difference between the way we see things now and Heaven is night and day. You know as much about God as an ant knows about humanity.

Religions treat the bible like fans of a movie, even though nothing changed since the events of the bible.. you believe but you don't apply it to reality. Everything is good in the end and there is nothing to worry about but until then; Hell is yours and yours alone.

Anyone can know God for real, but it has to be the only thing they want.

All have sinned and all must die once, the first death which is that of the physical body in which the mind=spirit that is 'YOU' after which, the disembodied mind that is 'YOU' must go off into judgement.

The righteous disembodied spirits enter into a state of rest in the bosom of Abraham, while the unrepentant wicket spirits, in terrible torment find no rest as they await the great day of judgement and their unknown future.

After the death of the human race, as prophesied by the Lord through his prophet Zephaniah, the 'Son of Man' takes his throne and divides the disembodied spirits of mankind. Matthew 25: 31-34; “When the Son of Man comes as King and all the angels with him, he will sit on his royal throne, and the people of all the nations will be gathered before him. Then he will divide them into two groups, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the righteous people on his right and the others on his left. Then the King will say to the people on his right, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world.

Verse 41; “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!

Same story different book, Revelation 21: 5-8; Then the one who sits on the throne said, “And now I make all things new!” He also said to me, “Write this, because these words are true and can be trusted.”

And he said, “It is done! I am the first and the last, the beginning and the end. To anyone who is thirsty I will give the right to drink from the spring of the water of life without paying for it. Those who win the victory will receive this from me: I will be their God, and they will be my children.

But cowards, traitors, perverts, murderers, the immoral, those who practise magic, those who worship idols, and all liars — the place for them is the lake burning with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”

This in the biblical hell, the second death, which is that of the disembodied mind, that is divided from the soul, no more mental suffering or anguish, just everlasting death from which there is no return. For death is the penalty for the unrepentant sinner, not everlasting life.

The Lord will then give to the lifeless soul a new body in which to develop a new mind=spirit.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

There's also a 'place' beyond that where there is no sense of 'I', there's just a sense of being existence itself. If that makes sense, because it's really difficult to put into words.

I'd say it like:

There is a sense of "I" but "I" am not identified with any ideas especially dealing with self interest. I just am. Fully present, but not present as something or somebody. No agenda, no goals, no expectations, nothing wanted or sought. Quite content with what is and no desire for anything else. No desires or wants, no judgments or interpretations.

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

I'd say it like. Quite content with what is and no desire for anything else. No desires or wants, no judgments or interpretations.

Who wrote the Post above ?

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

I'd say it like:

"I" am not identified with any ideas especially dealing with self interest. I just am. Fully present, but not present as something or somebody. No agenda, no goals, no expectations, nothing wanted or sought. Quite content with what is and no desire for anything else. No desires or wants, no judgments or interpretations.

Then why are you on this forum? Apparently you have nothing whatsoever to contribute to anyone who is here searching for truth. For you have No agenda, no goals, no expectations, nothing wanted or sought. Quite content with what is and no desire for anything else. No desires or wants, no judgments or interpretations, so, what do you have? NOTHING.

To you, the world is exactly as you want it, you have no desire whatsoever for anything to change, is that what you are saying?

But then, perhaps you could be referring to the 'LOGOS' God, who is no respecter of mankind, and who sends his blessings on the righteous and wicked alike, and his disasters on the wicked and righteous alike, instead of the Most High intellect to have developed within the Logos and is one with the 'LOGOS GOD' being the Supreme Personality of Godhead to have developed within the '"LOGOS", "The Son of Man" who can reveal the blessing and disasters that are coming, as he did with Joseph, revealing the great seven years of plenty that would be followed by the seven years of severe drought?

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Anointed

Then why are you on this forum? For you have no judgments or interpretations, so, what do you have? NOTHING.

And yet their multitude of Postings tell a different story.

Originally Posted by The Anointed

To you,

+You misinterpreted my post there. I was replying to Greenslade. He posted quote: "There's also a 'place' beyond that where there is no sense of 'I', there's just a sense of being existence itself."

He was describing "enlightenment" or perception as our true selves or however one wants to word it. "Union with God" works as well. One with God. Surrendered fully to God.

Selfless. Humble. Kind. Open minded. Unconditionally loving. In the present moment holding to no past, no judgement of others, no disparaging remarks about others, hate, anger, jealously none of that. Love, that's all. Unconditional love.

My post was about my understanding that in that state Greenslade described "I" does not disappear, it just changes. I was posting about that state. Not myself. That state is the ideal. The one one hopes to find fully someday.

To never speak badly about another person as so many do. Point at them. Say something bad or negative about them. That's evil in my view. Why ever point at somebody else? Say something negative about somebody else? Judge somebody else? Have an opinion about somebody else? It's a sin in Christianity. Bad karma in Buddhism or ignorance or whatever. Who knows lol. Being a kind person often takes a back seat in some into some version of Buddhism as all they care about is not judging themselves, so they can do whatever they want and consider themselves "spiritual" judging others continues on sometimes.

Originally Posted by The Anointed

so, what do you have?

That's easy. Attributes of the source or God. Love.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hell is the topic of this thread so here are some quotes about Hell and sinning.

Matthew 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, ...” - Matthew 25:46

What happens to those who desire to harm others? Spend their time seeking to harm others, to disparage others? I assume they will be harmed in the end.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

The second death is the death of the soul? The first one is the body?

I don't think matter can be destroyed, it can only change forms, so I would guess the second death is the soul's identity being erased. There is a reference to that in that book "Journey Of Souls" where a soul that enjoyed warrior lives and harming others was going to be erased and in Castaneda's later books, he talked about a second death after one had died.

Romans 6:23
King James Version
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A lot of people believe the evil get redeemed after some time, when they change, but what if they don't change? Life after life they repeat the same sins. Would this be allowed to continue for eternity?