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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Interfaith

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  #181  
Old 10-01-2021, 07:11 AM
Chainer Chainer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Depends on the religion, doesn't it? What if said religion is polytheistic and relativist?

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you.

My point is a simple one - folks think the world of spirit is defined 'by' this religion or that one, instead of religions being defined by a glimpse of the world of spirit, in some past moment of time, long ago and far away..

However much value they once had, religions are 'man made' constructions hugely distorted over time, but the world of spirit 'is' what it 'is', there is just the one... And it continues to sit in the black felt background of life smiling at us all, whatever you or me believe today.

Things have changed, we have to change are 'religions' (are systems for engaging in the spirit world) accordingly to get any use out of them - that is the point of them after all.

For instance who here now believes in a 1 male creator God, let alone the need to 'worship' said creator god so 'he' will 'bless us' like so much 'livestock'?

Yet many people including me believe there is incredible value when you actually understand 'how' the practise of worship works. Seems to me its the quality of the praying, not the god, that matters..
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  #182  
Old 10-01-2021, 01:54 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
My theory is, a person is only religious at times when they engage in religious thought/activity. At times when they do not think that way, they have no quality of religion (hence they have symbols and rituals to remind them to think religiously)...
You raise a valid point that "religious identity" clearly makes irrelevant a "meditation of stillness" since religious identity involves thought and , unfortunately, tends to be divisive.

Last edited by Miss Hepburn : 01-09-2021 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Shortened quote as Admin has asked to 2-3 sentences
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  #183  
Old 10-01-2021, 01:55 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Gem,

One of my enjoyable memories are:
being invited by a Sikh, to sit down and have some tea and converse.
trying to find a restaurant with another person who that serves food for Muslims.
being invited by a monk in charge of a 'famous' Temple that when I am in his 'country', to come visit and spend a night.
having an in depth conversation with some Jehovah Witnesses that did not realize that Jehovah is first mentioned in Genesis 2:4.

and it goes on and on......... the barriers we believe that exist, only exist if we give that kind of thinking.......... energy.

Well said. The "barrier we believe that exist, only exist if we give that kind of THINKING .... energy."

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  #184  
Old 10-01-2021, 01:57 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
... because from the moment one separates and becomes 'something' that 'others are not', violence becomes inevitable.

Once again, you are right on target with that part of your statement though I would say that violence becomes LIKELY but not necessarily inevitable.
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  #185  
Old 29-01-2021, 04:44 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Once again, you are right on target with that part of your statement though I would say that violence becomes LIKELY but not necessarily inevitable.
The reason it is inevitable is the dual paradigm renders definitions by contrasting extremes, and because religious identity is a dual paradigm, where there is a religion there are extremists. The moderates tend to be reasonably peaceful, they get along and are tolerant of each other, but they are running a dual identity paradigm, and therefore need extremists to fill the roles of the dual paradigm to secure their identities. In that way, religious conflict is not supported by moderate believers directly, but indirectly through the extreme ends which are needed as contrast to define the larger dualistic 'us/them' narrative.
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  #186  
Old 29-01-2021, 09:47 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
The reason it is inevitable is the dual paradigm renders definitions by contrasting extremes, and because religious identity is a dual paradigm, where there is a religion there are extremists. The moderates tend to be reasonably peaceful, they get along and are tolerant of each other, but they are running a dual identity paradigm, and therefore need extremists to fill the roles of the dual paradigm to secure their identities. In that way, religious conflict is not supported by moderate believers directly, but indirectly through the extreme ends which are needed as contrast to define the larger dualistic 'us/them' narrative.

I have not seen any of the extremes you have mentioned. What I have seen is people that dislike certain religions and that seems to fuel animosities. If they should get to 'know' the various religions, their animosities seem to disappear.
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  #187  
Old 30-01-2021, 12:38 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
I have not seen any of the extremes you have mentioned. What I have seen is people that dislike certain religions and that seems to fuel animosities. If they should get to 'know' the various religions, their animosities seem to disappear.
How have you not seen the extremists in religions?

People have good reason to dislike religions, such as being told they will burn in hell, or the Christians destroyed their culture, or they suffered institutional abuse as a child or many other possible reasons. These religious organisations are not benign. The record of their harms is extensive, so we don't need to hate them (though it's not surprising that some do), but we have to look at it factually and not pretend they are 'all good'. Indeed it is their self-image of 'all goodness' that requires them externalise the 'bad' by demonising of 'the other', so when I explain the psychosocial reasons that make religious violence inevitable, maybe I'm onto something at the heart of the problem

I understand it is just ignorance - 'they know not what they do' - so even though it is atrocious, I can't hate it, but I can say violence is inherent to religious identity and explain why that is. I also wish it was possible for religions to coexist in harmony, but it's not, and in all of time we will find that despite all efforts to bring coexistence about, that cannot happen without destroying the religious identity itself. If people want peace they could just forgo their religion, otherwise they have to accept the violent consequences of religious identity.
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  #188  
Old 30-01-2021, 01:50 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
How have you not seen the extremists in religions?
People have good reason to dislike religions, such as being told they will burn in hell, or the Christians destroyed their culture, or they suffered institutional abuse as a child or many other possible reasons. These religious organisations are not benign. ...

You make it seem all religions operate in the extreme and I have not seen that. For example, many claim Muslims are extremist but I have not personally been involved with a Muslim that was an extremist. Last week I was at a large import/export business run by Muslims. I can say, I treat them well and they treat me well. I was surprise that at this visit they were referring to me as 'one of their own'.
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  #189  
Old 30-01-2021, 07:34 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
You make it seem all religions operate in the extreme and I have not seen that. For example, many claim Muslims are extremist but I have not personally been involved with a Muslim that was an extremist. Last week I was at a large import/export business run by Muslims. I can say, I treat them well and they treat me well. I was surprise that at this visit they were referring to me as 'one of their own'.
Of course most religious people are moderate, but there is an extreme end which cannot be denied, and I'm merely pointing out why that is.
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  #190  
Old 30-01-2021, 04:43 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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You seem to also be implying that Atheist are not 'extremist'. I find Atheist to have very similar moral values as 'religious' people.
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