Saving God's / 'our churches' - and getting them busy again.

[WhiteWarrior]

Originally Posted by sky

There are Martyred and Un-Martyred Saints in Christianity, Mother Theresa is one who comes to mind. Holiness in Christianity has various meanings but I personally prefer 'righteous living'.....

Okay I am not against that. But what makes one living righteous and one living not?

Originally Posted by WhiteWarrior

I do believe that some people were so full of goodness in life, that once they died and crossed over they were still spectacular spirits with spiritual powers greater than many. Maybe they actually truly are saints. But that will only be known for sure on the other side, and not subject to the marketing department of a religious headquarter.

I would caution about questioning the reality of sainthood. It has the appearance of originating from the ego……not thinking that anyone could be deserving of recognition. In large part it is a Protestant ploy for questioning Catholicism…..and once one seeks to disavow this pillar of Christianity all other denominations (other than your own) also become targets. This clearly is ego driven…..the desire to prove that yours is the true and correct church. Separation from others was never advocated by Christ……his mission was directed to the world and not to small enclaves……..

[WhiteWarrior]

"Don't ask questions"? That's one I am REALLY cautious about.

Originally Posted by WhiteWarrior

Okay I am not against that. But what makes one living righteous and one living not?

Any church that is choosing a minister is making a decision about righteousness. Maybe any minister that is chosen on this basis is to be more trusted than the ministers that choose themselves ? The ones that start their own churches ? Here in the States self starting TV evangelists are notorious for their self-serving ministries……

Originally Posted by WhiteWarrior

"Don't ask questions"? That's one I am REALLY cautious about.

Can you live with the answers ?
Is it worth spending time to discredit acknowledged saints or can time be spent in a productive way instead of a destructive way ?

[WhiteWarrior]

TV evangelists makes my neckhairs stand out in the worst way. I'm not going there.

The chosen minster, we are talking diocese right? They choose the ministers and pick their congregation areas, if I am not translating this too erronously. They are also the ones who, as record attest, often transfer 'trouble' priests over to other areas where their (police) records are not known to those who live there.

I believe in righteousness. But as I understand the term, it is about living a lawful and peaceful life. Now, I looked it up (The Century Dictionary):
"righteousness
noun
The character of being righteous; purity of heart and rectitude of life; the being and doing right; conformity in character and conduct to a right standard.

Hence, also In theology, a coming into spiritual oneness with God, because for Christ's sake the believer in Christ is treated as righteous.

A righteous act or quality; anything which is or purports to be righteous. "

'Spiritual oneness with God'. That's a tough one. And since we are talking about saints, I assume that that lactating nun who claimed to have had sex with Jesus in a dream and got sainthood on that basis was most righteous?

Getting back to you, YES, any minister/priest/clergy should be chosen by higher ranking clergy to be ordained. It is a paid job, rules must be followed. But are they really chosen because of the righteousness they claim? Then why aren't they cast out when they thoroughly break it? I don't know, maybe we need some actual church officials to tell us how this works.

[WhiteWarrior]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Can you live with the answers ? Is it worth spending time to discredit acknowledged saints or can time be spent in a productive way instead of a destructive way ?

Would you accept the holiness of letters of absolution to bad people who had bought them from the church? I don't. I will not accept the other paperwork done at that time either. Just as I have seen waaay too many 'updated' history books.

Fortunately, we don't have to agree. But it is interesting to see how different our approaches are.

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness…….wise words that help to avoid hypocrisy……

[sky]

Originally Posted by WhiteWarrior

Okay I am not against that. But what makes one living righteous and one living not?

Actions and the effects they cause, imo only.....

[Redchic12]

Molearner said: ''Can you live with the answers ? Is it worth spending time to discredit acknowledged saints or can time be spent in a productive way instead of a destructive way ?''

I have to agree with these comments.

Regarding saints/martyrs, isn’t this all ego based behaviour. I mean someone who decides to die for their faith usually believe that they are special, in doing this and people who put them on a pedestal think they are special as well, hence ego ego ego.





Just my opinion.