What I believe full enlightenment is

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustBe

It’s not really about why one would do that, it’s the nature of the true self. Natural arising of the essence of itself as this.

The true self is ‘attained’ as a state of balance within.

Clear feeling is not attached. Clarity of being the true self is aware conscious and clear. Feelings through this state are are just about feeling. ‘I feel’ ...the balance within is aware and neutral to reactions that aren’t the true self..

Neutrality comes from eliminating the root causes from the symptoms. Neutrality comes from peace of mind. Neutrality comes from unity consciousness..

There is ‘no’ reaction, when there is no cause in the body. The true state is about unity, non duality which allows for the natural arising of joy, love, respect, goodness..etc

To be honest I am not following you in regards to what I said in reply to Running's post.

If I just home in on your idea of what constitutes a true state .. and as you say it is about unity, non duality which allows for the natural arising of joy, love, respect, goodness..etc

Now where in this true state is there permanence?

Where in this love, joy, respect and goodness is there room for one to react to putting an end to the life of a poor fly?

Where is there the room for this emotion to arise and be carried out in this destructive course of action ..

I don't know if you have been following what I have been saying about this, but in my understanding / experience, there is no anger arising in what you refer to as one's true state ..

Do you agree that you can't have both permanent Bliss on one hand and the destruction of another life in the other .

Do such energies mix in your world of understanding / experience?


x dazzle x

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I understand about recharging the batteries and such likes, I do so for hours a day after work, plugging back into the source energy so to speak, so I agree with the tops ups lol ..

But why would a person that is intoxicated with Love feel the irritation and the urge to kill a fly? Or why would one pray for the end of sufferings while intoxicated with Love .

Why would one worry deeply about something or someone when all there is, is Love, Bliss, Joy on a permanent basis ..

I am not getting any real answers here about why one would entertain these energies when they are intoxicated with Love, Bliss, Joy ..

The only reason I have ascertained is that this permanent bliss and such likes is beyond the emotion/s .. but such a bliss in my eyes filters through every aspect of your being .. and that is why when this bliss becomes you, you won't have any room for anger towards another ..

A Self realized individual however can express an array of emotions but not while saturated in Love / Joy / Bliss .


x daz x

Well, apart from the question of emotion arising from bliss, you do understand how bliss can be permanent now right? Which at least has answered one question of the two.

In a previous post, I related the story from Autobiography of a Yogi which partly answers your question.

In the puritanical sense, the only thing I can do here is to side with Patanjali.

In Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, the steps to Enlightenment are outlined in eight limbs or stages. The first of which are the Yamas, which deal with morality and ethics. The notion of Ahimsa or Non Violence is among them, along with truthfulness, honesty, non stealing, non gluttony, celibacy, non covetousness, sobriety...I mean, if we are not going to kill a fly, out goes drinking beer, fapping, telling fibs and hording possessions too...it is quite a big ask..

Thing is, does one require these things to be enlightened? or do they all naturally cease of their own accord once enlightenment is reached? Six of one...half of the other.

I have no answer for you daz. I have experienced transcendental consciousness quite a few times myself and I am still working towards making the experience more permanent, but I know that it is very possible, not just through meditation and focused awareness, but through a FULL heart surrender and a total ego death on a weekly basis.

Intermittent fasting and purification also helps with this...that falls under the second stage of Patanjali's eight limbs called Niyamas.

Has the fact that I often kill cockroaches interfered with my experience to receive the Grace of the Divine? Apparently not.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by God-Like

What are you on about? Who's spitting and vomiting out the info being shared? I am simply questioning what is being offered up and thus far I don't agree with what's being said.. Is that alright with you?
x daz x

It's just how I (subjectively) experienced and so characterized the 'tone' of your 'questioning' and 'disagreement' (as you put characterize it) in response to 7L's delicious (to my taste) offerings. And yes, that was only meant to be feedback - it's quite alright with me if you continue expressing yourself the same way.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Well, apart from the question of emotion arising from bliss, you do understand how bliss can be permanent now right? Which at least has answered one question of the two.

In a previous post, I related the story from Autobiography of a Yogi which partly answers your question.

In the puritanical sense, the only thing I can do here is to side with Patanjali.

In Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, the steps to Enlightenment are outlined in eight limbs or stages. The first of which are the Yamas, which deal with morality and ethics. The notion of Ahimsa or Non Violence is among them, along with truthfulness, honesty, non stealing, non gluttony, celibacy, non covetousness, sobriety...I mean, if we are not going to kill a fly, out goes drinking beer, fapping, telling fibs and hording possessions too...it is quite a big ask..

Thing is, does one require these things to be enlightened? or do they all naturally cease of their own accord once enlightenment is reached? Six of one...half of the other.

I have no answer for you daz. I have experienced transcendental consciousness quite a few times myself and I am still working towards making the experience more permanent, but I know that it is very possible, not just through meditation and focused awareness, but through a FULL heart surrender and a total ego death on a weekly basis.

Intermittent fasting and purification also helps with this...that falls under the second stage of Patanjali's eight limbs called Niyamas.

Has the fact that I often kill cockroaches interfered with my experience to receive the Grace of the Divine? Apparently not.

Well topping one's self up with bliss in my eyes doesn't reflect bliss as a permanent state, I just agree that life wears you down because of many reasons and one needs to plug oneself back in to source ..

If one's bliss battery is only 20% charged compared to 80% that doesn't mean at 20% one is open to be cruel to another human being lol, bliss is bliss regardless ..

My mum after 7 years of holding a specific frequency was literally skin and bone because herself was absorbed within the energy of so called enlightenment .

We have to be very thorough here in regards to what people say about it and what people actually do about it .. This is why I question anyone wearing a guru's hat that say one thing and does another ..

I think enlightened people (again whatever that means) can appear to some as not at all . People that stand up for themselves for instance and stay true to themselves can be seen to be less than spiritual because of their conviction .

Eating meat, drinking beer, smoking weed, I think people can do what they like, it really depends on how absorbed self is within the Love of what you are .. That's why some cannot even function because they are almost totally absorbed with the Love or within the Self.

You touched upon the intensity of it all earlier and 7 years was enough for my mum otherwise she would of died. You can't hold onto that sort of vibration as you also pointed out ..

Beware of permanent bliss bunnies that kill flies would be my advice to all ..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by davidsun

It's just how I (subjectively) experienced and so characterized the 'tone' of your 'questioning' and 'disagreement' (as you put characterize it). And yes, that was only meant to be feedback - it's quite alright with me if you continue expressing yourself the same way.

Okay, you are welcome to think / speculate on my tone just from the words written down ..

You can also just read my posts again without this speculative judgement which is an incorrect judgement by the way and you could see my posts in a completely different light . That's up to you .


x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

About Ram Dass being a customer complaints officer...I am musing over this..

Whenever we are in a very stressful situation, the "default mode" is to allow ourselves to become stressed out BY it, (which also includes any superlatives)...it is a prehistoric, instinctual vestige from the time we were being chased by bears and giant carnivorous bunnies.

The "stress response" is part of the interaction between the lymbic system and the amygdala which is habitually formed. Meditation is the key to undoing mental habitations.

Really though, the key to keeping one's cool in very stressful situations is emotional detachment and this comes from a lifetime (perhaps many) of catching the stress reaction at the first instance and turning it into a cold, ambivalent response. This takes a hell of a lot of practice, but it becomes pretty much autopilot after a while....

"Yes sir/madam, I acknowledge your deep pain. How terrible it must be for you to have us overcharge you by 10 cents on your phone bill...yes, I can appreciate how devastated you must be by this...you mustn't have had a very happy childhood and it is such a shame I cannot give out hugs over the phone or I would squeeze you very tight right now..."

It is pretty easy when you get the hang of it..

"Hey boss, why you firing me after an hour? I was fully prepared to do my 12 hour shift here...would you like a healing?...what is it you are saying? are you telling me to sod off? Oh well, Ram Dass doing a 12 hour shift at a customer call centre just wasn't meant to be...

I know! I will change my name to Richard Alpert, get a psychology degree at Harvard, then join Timothy Leary and take a truckload of acid and 'shrooms....yep, that sounds like a plan..."

LOL!!! The more I think about it, the more I really just LOVE the idea of Ram Dass doing a 12 hr shift at the customer complaints call centre!

Hahahaha...."Are you telling me to sod off? I understand you are upset...so terribly sorry about that. Is there anything I can do for you to make you feel better? How about those hugs I couldn't actually step through the phone & give the irate customers? Aww...C'mere..."

Truthfully, we need just loads and loads more of Ram Dass on hand, all round.



Peace & blessings
7L

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by God-Like

To be honest I am not following you in regards to what I said in reply to Running's post.

If I just home in on your idea of what constitutes a true state .. and as you say it is about unity, non duality which allows for the natural arising of joy, love, respect, goodness..etc

Now where in this true state is there permanence?

Where in this love, joy, respect and goodness is there room for one to react to putting an end to the life of a poor fly?

Where is there the room for this emotion to arise and be carried out in this destructive course of action ..

I don't know if you have been following what I have been saying about this, but in my understanding / experience, there is no anger arising in what you refer to as one's true state ..

Do you agree that you can't have both permanent Bliss on one hand and the destruction of another life in the other .

Do such energies mix in your world of understanding / experience?


x dazzle x

In my awareness as my own true state, there is respect for the fly, so I wouldn’t hit the fly.

As for others who hit the fly in anger I am aware they are reacting where they are in themselves as they are choosing.

So the room your speaking of is space for growth to know more as one becomes aware of more.

I can only say there is no anger arising in me now as my true state.

My balance within is now stronger as my true state, so naturally I experience more neutrality and non reaction, more aliveness and centredness. As for another in permanent bliss who still hits and kills the flies, perhaps he hasn’t integrated compassion for all life just yet. Does permenant bliss mean he has nothing more to learn or is bliss his learning in this life?

Bliss moves through people’s experiences at various times of their process, I know of one friend here who went into a bliss state for months on end. It didn’t disappear. I don’t know if he killed flies. He shared it’s always there. He just lives with it and lives his life.

Everything mixes until it doesn’t. The melding, blending unifying nature of our experience is that there is no order to the experience. We are experiencing ourselves through many streams of what our potential can be..

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

LOL!!! The more I think about it, the more I really just LOVE the idea of Ram Dass doing a 12 hr shift at the customer complaints call centre!

Hahahaha...."Are you telling me to sod off? I understand you are upset...so terribly sorry about that. Is there anything I can do for you to make you feel better? How about those hugs I couldn't actually step through the phone & give the irate customers? Aww...C'mere..."

Truthfully, we need just loads and loads more of Ram Dass on hand, all round.



Peace & blessings
7L

To be clear here, I wasn't singling out Ram Dass here .. I know nothing of his teachings so can't comment ..

I tried to think of some guru type of name and it was either Rama Dama or rama lama ding dong lol ..



x daz x

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Okay, you are welcome to think / speculate on my tone just from the words written down ..

You can also just read my posts again without this speculative judgement which is an incorrect judgement by the way and you could see my posts in a completely different light . That's up to you .


x daz x

I edited my earlier post to make specific reference to your responses to 7L's sharings with you. I do not experience your more recent round of statements as having the tone-character I mentioned.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Well topping one's self up with bliss in my eyes doesn't reflect bliss as a permanent state, I just agree that life wears you down because of many reasons and one needs to plug oneself back in to source ..

If one's bliss battery is only 20% charged compared to 80% that doesn't mean at 20% one is open to be cruel to another human being lol, bliss is bliss regardless ..

My mum after 7 years of holding a specific frequency was literally skin and bone because herself was absorbed within the energy of so called enlightenment .

We have to be very thorough here in regards to what people say about it and what people actually do about it .. This is why I question anyone wearing a guru's hat that say one thing and do another ..

I think enlightened people (again whatever that means) can appear to some as not at all . People that stand up for themselves for instance and stay true to themselves can be seen to less than spiritual because of their conviction .

Eating meat, drinking beer, smoking weed, I think people can do what they like, it really depends on how absorbed self is within the Love of what you are ..

You touched upon the intensity of it all earlier and 7 years was enough for my mum otherwise she would of died. You can't hold onto that sort of vibration as you also pointed out ..

Beware of permanent bliss bunnies that kill flies would be my advice to all ..


x daz x

When one reaches a certain level of vibration or becomes permanently immersed in the bliss, their physical body, worldly concerns and such are no longer an issue or a priority. It is the ultimate sacrifice.

While it is difficult for a loved one to watch the apparent deterioration of one who is no longer physically "in this world", the ideal they are striving for is meant to ultimately connect their soul with Source permanently. Like Jesus said, you cannot serve two masters. You cannot put each of your two feet into two separate boats. This is very difficult for many to understand, in that it is a "go big or go home" thing.

I totally understand what you mean though, daz. The path of the renunciate is not for the faint of heart or one who still has connections in this world.

You say that you meditate every day, but have you ever really felt the love of the Divine?

I am talking about that thing which has you writhing on the floor in a babbling mess..I am talking about that thing which rips your beating heart out of your chest and holds up the mirror which allows you to see every tiny imperfection within yourself..that thing which the only response to it IS total surrender.

The day you feel that, is the day you will understand.