Neo Advaita vs. Classical Advaita

[no1wakesup]

Originally Posted by jimrich

You, Universal Consciousness, are all that there is and can never NOT exist.


You, Universal Consciousness, are way more than just a "mind".


You, Universal Consciousness, can do and be anything that you want in your dram play here.


All that is happening is you, Universal Consciousness, are pretending to be all these apparent forms and conditions in the dream play of existence [as member: awareness has stated].


Which is all just happening in your apparent play as Universal Consciousness.


It's a club that you have apparently manifested

Just you, Universal Consciousness. Have a ball...........

Yes, you are stating the obvious. The one experiencing the manny and so on. I think most here have read that, as you have and added that knowledge to their arsenal of spirituality. It's great for the new identity the ego takes on

Realizing that is quite different from conceptualizing it.

Ultimately, there is no "you" in it...at all. Any perception of that is simply an expression which is usually unconscious.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by jimrich
You, Universal Consciousness, are all that there is and can never NOT exist.
You, Universal Consciousness, are way more than just a "mind".
You, Universal Consciousness, can do and be anything that you want in your dram play here.
All that is happening is you, Universal Consciousness, are pretending to be all these apparent forms and conditions in the dream play of existence [as member: awareness has stated].
Which is all just happening in your apparent play as Universal Consciousness.
It's a club that you have apparently manifested
Just you, Universal Consciousness. Have a ball...........

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Yes, you are stating the obvious.

Obvious to you, perhaps, but not a lot of people get it that we are the nameless Source or whatever it's called. Once seen or known, then it's obvious - to the "awakened" one.

It's great for the new identity the ego takes on

The "SPIRITUALIZED" ego! ..... LOL.

Realizing that is quite different from conceptualizing it.

How is that for you? Have you "realized" that?

Ultimately, there is no "you" in it...at all.

I'd say that there is a "you" in "it" - just not a personal, egoic one, plus there is no need for any communication in "it" since there's only one consciousness, hence no 'you', 'me', 'I', 'us', 'we', etc. or even thoughts as in ordinary communications between apparent individuals. But out here, words are apparently needed (unless we read minds, LOL).

Any perception of that is simply an expression which is usually unconscious.

Is this your own, personal experience or something you heard about?
jim

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Yes, you are stating the obvious. The one experiencing the manny and so on. I think most here have read that, as you have and added that knowledge to their arsenal of spirituality. It's great for the new identity the ego takes on

Realizing that is quite different from conceptualizing it.

Ultimately, there is no "you" in it...at all. Any perception of that is simply an expression which is usually unconscious.

There is indeed a very big difference between realizing and conceptualizing.

It would be interesting to hear what people here have to say about what triggered their realization(s) on whatever level(s) they choose to share.

[7luminaries]

Hey there Jim and thanks for your reply. Not much else to say other than agreed that in my experience, the experiences I've had point to the truth of all things. There is no hierarchy of what is. there is one. there are many as one. there is one as many. .there is interbeing in unity. there is Unity in interbeing. there are all those things... All are equally real and all are equally What Is. All is that and all are that. Except the isolated self. There is no one truth that overrides any or all other truths. Except that the "truth" of the isolated self is false.

And the only other thing I would add to this is that there is not much more to be gained from intellectual exploration once you have realised the awareness and meaning of these concepts within your own life. The deepest truth... Whether of interbeing in unity, of unity in interbeing, of interbeing, of unity, and all other truth ...however we recognise or apprehend all that is... is found within, via the awakened heart-led consciousness. So when I say I agree with the mystics, it's because that is the truth that I've known. Meaning, apprehended through experience.
Peace and blessings,
7L

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Not much else to say...
7L

We agree....

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Jim and thanks for your reply. Not much else to say other than agreed that in my experience, the experiences I've had point to the truth of all things. There is no hierarchy of what is. there is one. there are many as one. there is one as many. .there is interbeing in unity. there is Unity in interbeing. there are all those things... All are equally real and all are equally What Is. All is that and all are that. Except the isolated self. There is no one truth that overrides any or all other truths. Except that the "truth" of the isolated self is false.

And the only other thing I would add to this is that there is not much more to be gained from intellectual exploration once you have realised the awareness and meaning of these concepts within your own life. The deepest truth... Whether of interbeing in unity, of unity in interbeing, of interbeing, of unity, and all other truth ...however we recognise or apprehend all that is... is found within, via the awakened heart-led consciousness. So when I say I agree with the mystics, it's because that is the truth that I've known. Meaning, apprehended through experience.
Peace and blessings,
7L

"...there is not much more to be gained from intellectual exploration once you have realised the awareness and meaning of these concepts within your own life. The deepest truth... Whether of interbeing in unity, of unity in interbeing, of interbeing, of unity, and all other truth ...however we recognise or apprehend all that is... is found within..."

That is wonderfully said and I was wondering if you could share with us some of the breakthrough happenings/experiences that triggered your realization. (After reading what you wrote, I did go back to read some of your previous posts but could not find what I was looking for though I may have just missed it.)

I agree completely with your conclusion, but I'm wondering exactly HOW you became convinced of it ---- not intellectually but experientially as you indicated.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

There is indeed a very big difference between realizing and conceptualizing.

It would be interesting to hear what people here have to say about what triggered their realization(s) on whatever level(s) they choose to share.

Still_Waters

Reading these forums and questions like "What are the symptoms of awakening" etc. leads me to be grateful that when I started I was not taught to have expectations or even knowledge. Growing a flower bed is a practical matter, soil, sun, water, care. The outcome and "symptoms" is what will come if the flower bed is well looked after. Information overload sometimes is a hindrance.

shiningstars

[sky]

I read many posts on here from individuals explaining what it felt like for them when they had their ' Awakening '
My understanding of awakening/enlightenment is when you realize there is no you/I to become awakened/enlightened.

Look for the clouds in a piece of paper.
See the sunshine in the homeless man sleeping on the street.
Look at the rain in an arid desert.
Are we not all part of Universal consciouness.

Just my little feelings

[redstone]

Originally Posted by sky123

I read many posts on here from individuals explaining what it felt like for them when they had their ' Awakening '
My understanding of awakening/enlightenment is when you realize there is no you/I to become awakened/enlightened.

Look for the clouds in a piece of paper.
See the sunshine in the homeless man sleeping on the street.
Look at the rain in an arid desert.
Are we not all part of Universal consciouness.

Just my little feelings

It's my eye on it as well Sky!

any attempt to try and grasp and hold on to the source or ground just can't be done, so practically looking at it the self must let go and yeild to a meditative practice at some point, which is the only way a connection with the source can be experienced...without the experiencer of course.

the other thing with the intellectual understanding of this is it has to be tracked in to the meditative technique your using as well, I say this because your still left with your own historical energy which is your "SELF" intellectually understanding that you are the source still does not de-energise this historical energy that you are, so I find it improbable that without that meditative technique to access the experience of that source, then it's just another map of where to go but not making the journey there...I'm not saying a maps a bad thing if it's an accurate map it does help.

I know the self does not exist inherently from it's own side and all the descriptions that go with it, it's the application of the meditative technique that will make the difference, looking at a few of those guys talking about advaita on youtube, they were all heavily involved in some way or another in a spiritual quest of some kind, so they obviously applied the meditative techique enough for there self to de-energise and collapse as Tony Parsons puts it.

Right...I'm going to slip in to myself and go shopping now!

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

"...there is not much more to be gained from intellectual exploration once you have realised the awareness and meaning of these concepts within your own life. The deepest truth... Whether of interbeing in unity, of unity in interbeing, of interbeing, of unity, and all other truth ...however we recognise or apprehend all that is... is found within..."

That is wonderfully said and I was wondering if you could share with us some of the breakthrough happenings/experiences that triggered your realization. (After reading what you wrote, I did go back to read some of your previous posts but could not find what I was looking for though I may have just missed it.)

I agree completely with your conclusion, but I'm wondering exactly HOW you became convinced of it ---- not intellectually but experientially as you indicated.

I've posted on SF since 2010 at least...and I've meditated and consciously walked my journey almost from birth. I've always been interested in energy work and healing...in the mediation and handling of the marriage of the less dense and the more dense (physical, temporal) aspects of What Is. I've always seen and known of the direct manifestation of spirit as temporal reality, that there is no distance...all distance and all separation are illusory. I can't tell you why I know...I've always known whilst always having sought to know more deeply and more truly. But uncovering the permutations of this truth in our manifest existence have taken a lifetime of ever deeper and more fearless engagement, not only with myself/Spirit but also with all others/Spirit and with all that is/Spirit.

Why did I seek to know more truly and more deeply? Same as most who walk their path, I would guess. To deal with the context of my life, to understand the nature of our manifest social reality and the larger truth of What Is. There is no hierarchy of truth. There is no hierarchy of the real. The One and the emptiness and the interbeing and the manifest reality are all the same...all equally "true" or "real". It matters not some aspects are unchanging and some are changing, or that some are unmanifest and foundational whilst some are emanated and temporal. All are equally of What Is. This is the truth I know, the way of the heart-led consciousness. The path of the awakened heart-led consciousness is the way of ever deeper engagement with all that is, in this (equally timeless and yet temporal and changing) moment and place.

There was no one moment of awakening over a lifetime, only a deepening and an expanding. There was only one spot in time...which felt rather long (LOL)...where I consciously felt I was unmoored from reality and even sanity. This is the crucible, the point of conscious and subtle metamorphosis, where all you are is consciously-heart led and where the rational ways, cultural artifacts and propaganda, and personal justifications, arguments and propositions of the ego and the mental realm become ever more all aligned with the truth of What Is...or else they simply fall away. My core experience has been that if you consciously walk your path over many years, it typically includes a conscious discipline in lovingkindness, radical forgiveness, discipline, and restraint in one's personal life (toward all but also with regard to sexuality), one which honours the highest good of others equally to the self and is free of exploitation and touch that does not include an authentic love for and commitment to the other's highest good on all levels. I have seen that this simple practice of love and service is widely embraced at deeper levels of awareness, but is rejected by many until that point, as its truth in love is so deeply grounded, holistic, and integrative. It is exactly that Be. Love. Now. manifest in our daily ways of intent, thought, word, and deed. In the being and the doing. This has lived meaning not only for self and others, but also in our relationships with our environment, i.e., the world around us and all other life on the planet -- and beyond.

Additionally, my experience has been that over years of meditation, particularly focused meditation, lucid yoga nidra, and energy work for growth and healing, you engage directly in interbeing with the consciousness of one or several or many others as a way of being...and there is only utter transparency, authenticity, serenity, and the deepest love and acceptance of all in spirit. It is where the highest good of all is always the point of origin. These too are other paths to realisation of the truth of Be. Love. Now., but I will say without reservation that they will only take you so far if you are not also on the path of love and service to others equally to self (discussed in prior paragraph).

To put a fine point on it, with the experiences routinely had as we walk our paths, in my experience it becomes self-evident (whilst in the crucible, if not sooner) that we can no longer hide from or "shelve" or "contain" the love you are, the truth you are, and the love and the truth that others are...and likewise for all that is. You must directly apprehend and embrace it, in all its terrifying and immense splendour. You are that. And so is everyone else. (of course...you can choose to deny all that is, even to consciously deny it...so "must" here is simply standing for the revelation that you are that).

All that we see around us, the exploitation, the domination and control, the hierarchies of power and greed...all that I rejected in simple love and solidarity, all that I rejected intellectually and on the basis of a passion for social justice and inherent human dignity and equality of worth...all those things are substantiated beyond all reckoning, reaffirmed in the unyielding light and love of What Is. And all the rest is meaningless and illusory, the props of the violent, the fearful, and the desperate -- and of their fear and loathing of What Is. That is what we meet in love and forgiveness, with great compassion but also with unyielding discipline, courage, strength, and a simple truth which cannot be other than What it Is.

And this is what my understanding of One and emptiness, of individuated consciousness in interbeing and unity has shown me -- this truth of What Is. Be love now, as Ram Dass says. Be. Love. Now. This is the middle way of radical lovingkindness and radical equanimity in being and doing. The truth is, the way of authentic love in our individuated temporal reality of interbeing and unity, of yin and yang, is the same core truth of What Is. There is no higher or deeper truth. There is only soaring higher and immersing more deeply into this one truth.

Peace & blessings
7L