How does one create their reality ..

Originally Posted by God-Like

And there you have it M.G. An aspect of knowing and not knowing within a self reality .

If i don't know heaven, it's not part of my reality regardless if another says it exists.

Originally Posted by God-Like

Just a way of showing how something that is seemingly unknown is just as a part of one's reality as what one knows is .

Heaven is not seeminly unknown to me, it is fully unknown, it's not part of my reality.

If one does not know self for instance then their reality will be just so.

I agree... my reality is based on what i percieve of it.
But if you say it's based on what i don't percieve, that i don't agree with.

You say that you do not know of heaven .. same unknown reality applies and is just so.

Please rewrite, i don't understand your meaning.

Originally Posted by God-Like

In a way I agree . It seems as if one needs to let go of one rung in order to grasp another . Attachment and detachment attachment and detachment is a pattern that happens in life, we let go of a self aspect to attain and evaluate another until there is nothing left .. or there are no more rungs of the ladder . .

In order to know there is nothing left, there has to be someone to percieve there is nothing left,
aka the claim of that a person can experience a state of nothingness is incorrect.

If there was no thing to hold on to there would be no thing to let go of .

Mr. Spock would say your logic is sound.

Without the process of experiencing holding on to something there would not be the process of letting something go . .

Mr. Spock would say your logic is sound.

therefore the letting go process is a result of the holding on ... The bigger picture M.G. suggests there is no one without the other .. The holding on process allows one to let go . . so in that respect any holding on is part of the letting go process ..

Mr. Spock would say your logic is unsound.
Process - A particular course of action intended to achieve a result.

True that one can't let go of item X unless one is holding onto item X.
But not true that letting go is part of the process of holding on, or that holding on is part of the process of letting go.
Why, because one can hold on to item X and never let go, and one can let go of item X and never hold on.

In regards to identity and non identity you have created and used an example / analogy that in it's self cannot entertain a non identity . A non identity would not be engaging conversation .

Well, that's my point isn't it, that when people claim either they don't exist or they have experienced a state of nothingness or they have no identity, i simply do not agree with their calculations.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

I don't know heaven, it's not part of my reality regardless if another says it exists.

The fact that you state 'that you do not know' means that not knowing is part of your reality . I am suggesting that what you do not know is factual in your eyes and that particular fact is what you are consciously aware of 'now' so therefore is a part of your reality .

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

I agree... my reality is based on what i percieve of it.

But if you say it's based on what i don't percieve, that i don't agree with.

Reality comprises of everything that is of one's mind . What comprises within one's mind is full of what is known and what is unknown and comprises of being aware and unaware . The subconscious mind is a prime example . Would you suggest M.G. that your individual subconscious mind does not exist or is not a part of your reality in entirety .

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

You say that you do not know of heaven .. same unknown reality applies and is just so.

Please rewrite, i don't understand your meaning.

As I said prior to making this statement, not knowing or not realizing self is part of one's reality just as much as knowing and realizing self is a part of one's reality . The self exists however one perceives self . It matters not that one doesn't consciously know of heaven (or the spirit world) but it exists nevertheless . The reality of one's mindful experience is not limited to what is consciously known in the here and now moment

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

In order to know there is nothing left, there has to be someone to percieve there is nothing left,

aka the claim of that a person can experience a state of nothingness is incorrect.

I would agree . I have never made a claim that the person is present within nothingness . What we are is present not the person .

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

therefore the letting go process is a result of the holding on ... The bigger picture M.G. suggests there is no one without the other .. The holding on process allows one to let go . . so in that respect any holding on is part of the letting go process ..

Mr. Spock would say your logic is unsound.

Process - A particular course of action intended to achieve a result.

As we have agreed on or should I say mr spock has agreed on that one needs to firstly hold on to something in order for one to let go of something . Soooo oo .. the bigger picture can suggest that one needs to hold on in order to allow the letting go aspect happen, therefore it can be said that holding on is part of the letting go process because letting go will never exist for an individual until they have in essence held on to something firstly .

Individuals can perceive two separate processes occurring in the letting go and the holding on instances or one can perceive no separation and just one big fat process .

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

true that one can't let go of item X unless one is holding onto item X.

But not true that letting go is part of the process of holding on, or that holding on is part of the process of letting go.

Why, because one can hold on to item X and never let go, and one can let go of item X and never hold on.

Absolutely Goat Man and mr spock nods his head in agreement .. And yet the question at hand was never about holding on and never letting go . How does one hold on to something for evermore . I would say in some shape or form it is inevitable that one will let go of something at some point whether it's down to the physical body dying or whether one entertains a different mind set that allows one to let go of something mental or emotional in nature . There is no time limit for how long one holds on or lets go of something for . Time is irrelevant mr spock has just told me .

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

In regards to identity and non identity you have created and used an example / analogy that in it's self cannot entertain a non identity . A non identity would not be engaging conversation .

Well, that's my point isn't it, that when people claim either they don't exist or they have experienced a state of nothingness or they have no identity, i simply do not agree with their calculations.

For sure M.G. I would raise an eyebrow or two myself if one suggests to me that on some level they do not exist or they are in some way unidentifiable . However, letting go of one's identity at a mind body level is attainable but one can only suggest such a thing when they are in identity to some degree . We have spoken in great depth of speaking of what is beyond mind only from a place that is of the mind for there is no-one present that is beyond .

x dazzle x

Originally Posted by God-Like

The fact that you state 'that you do not know' means that not knowing is part of your reality . I am suggesting that what you do not know is factual in your eyes and that particular fact is what you are consciously aware of 'now' so therefore is a part of your reality .

Reality comprises of everything that is of one's mind . What comprises within one's mind is full of what is known and what is unknown and comprises of being aware and unaware . The subconscious mind is a prime example . Would you suggest M.G. that your individual subconscious mind does not exist or is not a part of your reality in entirety .

As I said prior to making this statement, not knowing or not realizing self is part of one's reality just as much as knowing and realizing self is a part of one's reality . The self exists however one perceives self . It matters not that one doesn't consciously know of heaven (or the spirit world) but it exists nevertheless . The reality of one's mindful experience is not limited to what is consciously known in the here and now moment

I would agree . I have never made a claim that the person is present within nothingness . What we are is present not the person .

As we have agreed on or should I say mr spock has agreed on that one needs to firstly hold on to something in order for one to let go of something . Soooo oo .. the bigger picture can suggest that one needs to hold on in order to allow the letting go aspect happen, therefore it can be said that holding on is part of the letting go process because letting go will never exist for an individual until they have in essence held on to something firstly

Individuals can perceive two separate processes occurring in the letting go and the holding on instances or one can perceive no separation and just one big fat process .

Absolutely Goat Man and mr spock nods his head in agreement .. And yet the question at hand was never about holding on and never letting go . How does one hold on to something for evermore . I would say in some shape or form it is inevitable that one will let go of something at some point whether it's down to the physical body dying or whether one entertains a different mind set that allows one to let go of something mental or emotional in nature . There is no time limit for how long one holds on or lets go of something for . Time is irrelevant mr spock has just told me .

For sure M.G. I would raise an eyebrow or two myself if one suggests to me that on some level they do not exist or they are in some way unidentifiable . However, letting go of one's identity at a mind body level is attainable but one can only suggest such a thing when they are in identity to some degree . We have spoken in great depth of speaking of what is beyond mind only from a place that is of the mind for there is no-one present that is beyond .

x dazzle x

Would like to stay and chat but i have to go.
I am about to hand in my resignation and take up a new permanent position.
I've enjoyed our chats, even though we still see things very differently.

[Sarian]

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

Would like to stay and chat but i have to go.
I am about to hand in my resignation and take up a new permanent position.
I've enjoyed our chats, even though we still see things very differently.

I should do same and make some giddy with delight and relief.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

Would like to stay and chat but i have to go.
I am about to hand in my resignation and take up a new permanent position.
I've enjoyed our chats, even though we still see things very differently.

Good luck with the job Goat Man and I have enjoyed our chats also, it matters not that we don't see eye to eye on 'what is' at times but we agree that we have mutually enjoyed our connection . .

x dazzle x