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25-09-2020, 10:13 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,692
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phaelyn
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Do you personally have an ' Attachment ' to CT ? If you disagree with His Teachings/Lifestyle why waste time/energy looking for more evidence to back up your distaste of Him.... |
25-09-2020, 01:08 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,175
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phaelyn
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Does he sound just like Yoda to anyone else?
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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25-09-2020, 03:59 PM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,007
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sky123
Do you personally have an ' Attachment ' to CT ? If you disagree with His Teachings/Lifestyle why waste time/energy looking for more evidence to back up your distaste of Him....
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I have no distaste of him nor some kind of positive attachment to him. He never comes up in my daily life outside of Buddhism discussions in this Buddhism section of these forums. Why carry such a thing? For what purpose? How can you have distaste for something or love for something that no longer exists? There is no "him" anywhere. There's some recorded images, words, sounds, that's it. And really one most go completely out of their natural way to be to find such content. And there are images in peoples minds of something that does not really exist anymore. Images of non-phenomenal thought that becomes phenomenal through attention and effort and attachment and identification.
I never heard of him before others started posting all these rave reviews of him and his quotes and posts about how great and realized he is etc. So here is content before me, manufactured by others. Saying look at this thing, read this thing, become attached to this thing I carry. So naturally as a part of my awareness, I go look up info about him from direct sources, his own books and lectures. And others keep posting about him, not sure why. But so this is what others want to discuss as it relates to Buddhism in some way in their minds. I go look as this is what others are interested in and make the subject of discussion in a Buddhism thread and I find what I find. I have no control over what content is on him on the net. So I look at it and share what I found. To meet/connect with others where their minds are focused.
But yes as others may be attached to this person who once existed, and are personally invested in promoting him as such and such, trying to promote him to others, like look here at what he said once! It is great, profound, read it, see it. He is a "realized!" what am I to do? Buddhism contains truth, it is here as pointing to my understanding of life and myself. It is the most important thing that exists. Truth. But yes as others may be offended by anything contrary to what they hold dear, as they can't allow others to think differently from them without some kind of negative response, it does create a dilemma. This is true of human beings everywhere. They create forms of violence and conflict against those who do nothing more than have a different opinion from them. So what to do?
It's like the two monks walking home, encounter a woman at a river, one carries her across, later one yells at the other, how could you pick up that woman and carry her! It is against our vows to never touch a woman! The other monks replies, I put that woman down at the rivers edge, why do you still carry her?
Why keep carrying some emotional reactive response to a post from yesterday? from an hour ago, from a minute ago? We share our personal views here. Why expect all to agree? It just is. I think this, you think that. This is great, wonderful, perfect! Why make some conflict about it? Why carry anything forward in time? You may think mushrooms are delicious. I may not like them at all... who cares? But if you make the subject of this Buddhism thread "what are mushrooms? or "mushrooms and best thing ever!"" fine.... that's ok. I will share my experience and understanding of mushrooms.
If one can't handle someone having a different understanding and experience from themselves, if it is unpleasant for them or causes a negative response or experience, just put them on "ignore." Stop exposure to content that triggers them. But one can also stop trying to control what others think. Accept we all have different views. Come to understand the only reason others views affects me in anyway, is my own attachment to thought. Thought is what we make it. It can be nothing at all. Non-phenomenal. Without effect. Love all unconditionally. No matter what they say and do or think, as long as it does not harm others. Real harm, not self manufactured harm. Ego's getting bruised because others have a different view is not real harm. No one thinks the same, so allowing ourselves to experience harm from that is silly.
I love that person that once was. He is god and divine as every single person is. I have not one bad thought about him. Was what he projected god? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. No one here projects god or the divine, our true nature at all times. If we did, we would not be here, we would no longer be incarnating in human animal form.
Last edited by Phaelyn : 25-09-2020 at 05:02 PM.
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25-09-2020, 04:50 PM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,007
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gem
Does he sound just like Yoda to anyone else?
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Where his voice jump up into the high notes. My sister does that too. It was interesting to me that The DL went into all the requirements to be a practitioner of tantra rituals and practices. Was not expecting that at all. Like yes, you can do that, but only if you are under formal vows, only if you have complete and total control over your body and senses, to the point you can eat and drink.... ya what he said there.
It's that Tibetan Buddhism has all of that as a formal part of their historic content, so no way to distance themselves from it now, even though DL does not appear to be into it himself nor most modern Tibetan Monasticism. When Christianity was formed, they had those debates about what books to include in the bible. I don't think Buddhism has anything similar as all these different schools and groups were forming during the same general time without a formal authoritative body or source controlling it all. I'm no expert, but seems to me Buddhism ( and all their schools and sects) never really had some kind of formal authoritative body during their formation deciding what was "officially" Buddhist, relating to Buddha, and what was not. So when that anti-monastic forms group rebelled, and did the "pagan" type stuff, drinking, sex, herbs, etc and wove that into their Buddhism practice and belief it just grew into what we have now. The school of Tibetan Buddhism which includes Tantra.
In modern times, Tibetan Buddhism includes the buddha's monastic celibate forms, in some places anyway, so returned to forms the founders of the Tibetan Tantra school were rebelling against. All that monastic strict discipline and denial.
Thus, when the DL was asked about some Buddhist group where consuming alcohol and promiscuous sex was being practiced by the leader and many students, he could not really dismiss it as non-Buddhist as tantra is a part of their historic and even modern content. So instead, he was like, yea I won't judge it, instead will say you have to be at a very advanced level to do such things, have total control over your body and senses. With no attachment to pleasure and the senses.... begs the question, if one had no attachment to sensual pleasures, why be doing such things? Buddha never taught such practices.
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25-09-2020, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Gem
Personally, I don't believe Trungpa attained enlightenment, but that isn't important to me. He just doesn't operate on the foundations like sila and dana, so he's not worthy of refuge, and saying all the right things is not the reason I lend my ear.
The situation he created is still a lesson: Don't misplace your refuge, let alone devotion or you'll be used up and disappointed. These lessons are true-to-life and more valuable than spiritually-correct words.
I really feel for Chodron, and after following her for a few years now, I really respect how she disassociates with the degenerates who are supposed to be the teachers. She is the teacher, because she steps down on ethical grounds from the role of teacher. In that way, I don't give a rats mustache what Trungpa has to say, but I'd listen to Chodron and trust she's speaking honestly.
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He did, Gem and Pema Chodron is eternally grateful to him for that. That bond is unbreakable, and Pema is testament to that.
Trungpa's own teaching style was often unconventional. In his own words, "When we talk about compassion, we talk in terms of being kind. But compassion is not so much being kind; it is being creative to wake a person up."[70]
He did not encourage his students to imitate his own behavior, and was allegedly troubled by those who felt empowered by his example to do whatever they wanted and manipulate people.
As the third Jamgön Kongtrül explained to Trungpa's students, "You shouldn't imitate or judge the behavior of your teacher, Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, unless you can imitate his mind."[71]
I am not promoting that one follow an unorthodox teacher per se as it is hard for newcomers in particular to distinguish truth from falsity, but in this case, he knew his stuff. I didn't experience things first hand, so could not speak more than that.
JL
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25-09-2020, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phaelyn
I never heard of him before others started posting all these rave reviews of him and his quotes and posts about how great and realized he is etc. So here is content before me, manufactured by others. Saying look at this thing, read this thing, become attached to this thing I carry. So naturally as a part of my awareness, I go look up info about him from direct sources, his own books and lectures. And others keep posting about him, not sure why. But so this is what others want to discuss as it relates to Buddhism in some way in their minds. I go look as this is what others are interested in and make the subject of discussion in a Buddhism thread and I find what I find. I have no control over what content is on him on the net. So I look at it and share what I found. To meet/connect with others where their minds are focused.
But yes as others may be attached to this person who once existed, and are personally invested in promoting him as such and such, trying to promote him to others, like look here at what he said once! It is great, profound, read it, see it. He is a "realized!" what am I to do? Buddhism contains truth, it is here as pointing to my understanding of life and myself. It is the most important thing that exists. Truth. But yes as others may be offended by anything contrary to what they hold dear, as they can't allow others to think differently from them without some kind of negative response, it does create a dilemma. This is true of human beings everywhere. They create forms of violence and conflict against those who do nothing more than have a different opinion from them. So what to do?
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Dear Phaelyn,
The most ironic thing of course is that I'm not even a Trungpa Rinpoche follower - although I do sense his realizations and method and posted a very simple quote here.
Remember the key point here, Ryan:
There is no real Buddhist practice or realization to be had without sustained sitting meditation, in addition to the Eightfold Path.
In your quest to attack Trungpa Rinpoche, you seek to overlook this key part.
As Bodhidharma taught, seek out a true teacher otherwise this life may have been a wasted opportunity (if Buddhist realization is what is sought). Bodhidharma himself sat for years and years in lotus position.
Namaste,
JL
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25-09-2020, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sky123
Do you personally have an ' Attachment ' to CT ? If you disagree with His Teachings/Lifestyle why waste time/energy looking for more evidence to back up your distaste of Him....
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I'd agree with the Dalai Lama in the first video. Like his Lama said, CT's realization is clear.
All these moralists questioning the Dalai Lama - the Dalai Lama is a very patient, kind man, that's for sure.
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25-09-2020, 05:43 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,692
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by janielee
I'd agree with the Dalai Lama in the first video. Like his Lama said, CT's realization is clear.
All these moralists questioning the Dalai Lama - the Dalai Lama is a very patient, kind man, that's for sure.
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I haven't watched the Videos, but I agree HHDL is a much needed Gem in this world... |
26-09-2020, 09:02 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,692
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sentient
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' the hippies thought that Buddhism and dope was a good match lol '
Well Moses liked his Burning Bush |
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