What I believe full enlightenment is

[running]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I appreciate the attempted explanation, the main sticky point for me as already said is that in Love there is no fear or hate or anger that can arise and likewise in my experience of Bliss there was no self reflection of anger that can arise, there is no fly that can irritate you so to speak .. What I am hearing is that one can be permanently Blissful and Joyful while cursing the fly and it doesn't work for me at all .. Thanks again tho ..

I really do think that we are speaking of two different things here, what you call bliss is not what I call or refer to bliss .. This could be the issue.


x daz x

no problem.

therr is a reason why the masters refer to god intoxication. and some referr to being ecstatic. perhaps better words. but in any case bliss is used a lot to. so they all became interchangeable.

[running]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Cool.

Perhaps for daz and maybe J Krishmurti there is no such thing as an "enlightened state" but for everyone else there IS.

Just like how for an Atheist, God doesn't exist, but for a Theist, he DOES.

Watch me do all my stealth "ninja posts" on SF because others are too busy arguing with each other over 'effed if I know'.

Anybody seen the popcorn?

the k guy only had brief experinces of such from what i have read. 45 minute experience was one of them.

here is it copied.

Very early this morning, many hours before dawn, on waking there was that piercing intensity of strength with its sternness. There was in this sternness, bliss. By the watch it 'lasted' for forty-five minutes with increasing intensity. The stream and the quiet night, with their brilliant stars, were within it.

link to it.
http://weeraperuma.com/krishnamurti.html

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by running

believe your right.

the guy only had brief experinces of such from what i have read. 45 minute experience was one of them.

here is it copied.

Very early this morning, many hours before dawn, on waking there was that piercing intensity of strength with its sternness. There was in this sternness, bliss. By the watch it 'lasted' for forty-five minutes with increasing intensity. The stream and the quiet night, with their brilliant stars, were within it.

link to it.
http://weeraperuma.com/krishnamurti.html

My goodness..45 minutes? That's a marathon!

I recall something that Joe Mc said once in the Non Duality forum which really hit home to me..lemme see if I can find it .

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...5&postcount=15

Anyways, I heard something interesting that I related to when a shaivite guru said ..you experience bliss, and the interviewer said, how long do you experience it, for hours on end, for days, ? He said no, for 3 or 4 seconds because to experience any longer would mean the end of the physical body. I resonated with what he said somehow.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by muffin

Good afternoon daz

Me thinks you and others are talking about two different things or two different states.

Me too Muffin man .. although running has just said that the masters refer this to God intoxication ..

Well this IS what I am talking about in a roundabout way if we speak about that in relation to the Love of what you are .. but within that Love there is no room for any negative emotions to run simultaneously with that .

It makes no sense to me for there to be this permanent Love and whenever the thought arises to create pain towards another or entertain fear on some level that this Love is still permanently there. .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Let's just say that Jesus was enlightened - for the sake of argument only.

What made him flip the tables of the money changers inside the temple in a fit of rage?

He may have fully realised "ah, by doing this, they are gonna nail me to a cross and I will have the excuse I need to fulfil my destiny here".

What enlightenment means to me? Well, not that anything which I find to be personally relevant would apply in any way, shape or form to what enlightenment actually IS..

The ability to see the "bigger picture" totally irrespective of what is going on in our little corner of the universe...not only to realise the Self, but to realise that which is beyond any notion or perception of a Self..but also happens to be fully inclusive of it.

As far as I can tell, from what I can understand through my limited understanding, Enlightened people still have emotions.. they still feel anger, love, frustration sorrow etc, but they experience it FULLY in all of about five seconds, process it in the shortest time possible and then drop it and move on.

It isn't the emotion itself, it is the attachment to it, the dwelling on it and basing future actions upon it.

I agree that peeps can realize what they are and continue to feel anger, love, frustration sorrow etc and I would agree that there isn't the same level of attachment there so just as the weather changes one's feelings can change without the inflexibility to move with the energies ..

It doesn't matter in my eyes if anger lasts 1 second, 5 minutes or an hour for in these moments one's energies have changed in a manner of ways .. and in these moments there is no permanence to Bliss and Joy ..

One has to ask themselves why are they irritated at the fly .. There will be no blissful or joyful answer to that question ..


x daz x

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I agree that peeps can realize what they are and continue to feel anger, love, frustration sorrow etc and I would agree that there isn't the same level of attachment there so just as the weather changes one's feelings can change without the inflexibility to move with the energies ..

It doesn't matter in my eyes if anger lasts 1 second, 5 minutes or an hour for in these moments one's energies have changed in a manner of ways .. and in these moments there is no permanence to Bliss and Joy ..

One has to ask themselves why are they irritated at the fly .. There will be no blissful or joyful answer to that question ..


x daz x

This is going to be a slight digression which is in answer to a few posts made by yourself and running on the permanent/impermanent nature of Bliss.

If you notice my previous post, like the Yogi that Joe referred to, I have only experienced true bliss and unity with the Divine for only a few seconds at a time.

The rapture is so intense, so exquisite, I just can't handle it for long and I would take my hat off to anybody who could stand being in the direct energies of God for any longer than this...which leads me to a realization.

Think of the soul/spirit/Divine receptacle etc like a rechargeable battery.

Even a few seconds of direct bliss is enough to charge up the battery fully and the after-effects will be felt for weeks and sometimes even months.

However, over time, certain things drain the battery... negative people and experiences, energetic parasites, association with the mundane, dealing with impossible people at a complaint centre...

Unless this battery is recharged regularly, depletion will occur and it will be harder to charge it up.

The more stressful and demanding life is, the more one needs to be plugged in to the Source.

If the bliss is only temporary and you know it is only going to last for a month, don't wait for a month! top it up after three weeks! then do it every three weeks before it reaches the "flat battery" stage.

This way, even though the bliss is temporary, it becomes permanent through application - just topping it up when necessary to maintain that level constantly, instead of having the enlightenment in more or less manic-depressive episodic experiences.

[running]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I agree that peeps can realize what they are and continue to feel anger, love, frustration sorrow etc and I would agree that there isn't the same level of attachment there so just as the weather changes one's feelings can change without the inflexibility to move with the energies ..

It doesn't matter in my eyes if anger lasts 1 second, 5 minutes or an hour for in these moments one's energies have changed in a manner of ways .. and in these moments there is no permanence to Bliss and Joy ..

One has to ask themselves why are they irritated at the fly .. There will be no blissful or joyful answer to that question ..


x daz x

there are many people whom are worshipping for lack of a better word of having no emotions. or only ones they view as good ones. you are nowhere near alone.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

This is going to be a slight digression which is in answer to a few posts made by yourself and running on the permanent/impermanent nature of Bliss.

If you notice my previous post, like the Yogi that Joe referred to, I have only experienced true bliss and unity with the Divine for only a few seconds at a time.

The rapture is so intense, so exquisite, I just can't handle it for long and I would take my hat off to anybody who could stand being in the direct energies of God for any longer than this...which leads me to a realization.

Think of the soul/spirit/Divine receptacle etc like a rechargeable battery.

Even a few seconds of direct bliss is enough to charge up the battery fully and the after-effects will be felt for weeks and sometimes even months.

However, over time, certain things drain the battery... negative people and experiences, energetic parasites, association with the mundane, dealing with impossible people at a complaint centre...

Unless this battery is recharged regularly, depletion will occur and it will be harder to charge it up.

The more stressful and demanding life is, the more one needs to be plugged in to the Source.

If the bliss is only temporary and you know it is only going to last for a month, don't wait for a month! top it up after three weeks! then do it every three weeks before it reaches the "flat battery" stage.

This way, even though the bliss is temporary, it becomes permanent through application - just topping it up when necessary to maintain that level constantly, instead of having the enlightenment in more or less manic-depressive episodic experiences.

I understand about recharging the batteries and such likes, I do so for hours a day after work, plugging back into the source energy so to speak, so I agree with the tops ups lol ..

But why would a person that is intoxicated with Love feel the irritation and the urge to kill a fly? Or why would one pray for the end of sufferings while intoxicated with Love .

Why would one worry deeply about something or someone when all there is, is Love, Bliss, Joy on a permanent basis ..

I am not getting any real answers here about why one would entertain these energies when they are intoxicated with Love, Bliss, Joy ..

The only reason I have ascertained is that this permanent bliss and such likes is beyond the emotion/s .. but such a bliss in my eyes filters through every aspect of your being .. and that is why when this bliss becomes you, you won't have any room for anger towards another ..

A Self realized individual however can express an array of emotions but not while saturated in Love / Joy / Bliss .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by running

there are many people whom are worshipping for lack of a better word of having no emotions. or only ones they view as good ones. you are nowhere near alone.

I wonder why one would do that?


x daz x

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I wonder why one would do that?


x daz x

It’s not really about why one would do that, it’s the nature of the true self. Natural arising of the essence of itself as this.

The true self is ‘attained’ as a state of balance within.

Clear feeling is not attached. Clarity of being the true self is aware conscious and clear. Feelings through this state are are just about feeling. ‘I feel’ ...the balance within is aware and neutral to reactions that aren’t the true self..

Neutrality comes from eliminating the root causes from the symptoms. Neutrality comes from peace of mind. Neutrality comes from unity consciousness..

There is ‘no’ reaction, when there is no cause in the body. The true state is about unity, non duality which allows for the natural arising of joy, love, respect, goodness..etc