Witch not Wiccan

Originally Posted by Etu Malku

It took a while but I finally got a comment from The Temple of Set's founder Dr. Michael Aquino on this topic

- reprinted by permission from Dr. M.Aquino

That's interesting. But he ignores the fact that the Church of Satan is ultimately a child of Christianity. Even if they are atheistic in their outlook and employ Satanic trappings, those trappings are based off of Christian depictions of Satan, not anything else; no matter how much they'd like to wish it otherwise.

[norseman]

Christ - Satan = Yin - Yang. What's the big mystery ?

agree with norseman..if there is good there is bad, its the balance of nature, dark and light etc.

Originally Posted by loumoon

that is unrelated, the comment was in reference to being part of a covern, not about educating yourself about the craft, education of the craft doesnt have to come from within a covern, it is possible to learn about witch craft without being part of a covern. and i dont agree that its just a craft...its so much more than that, there is a deep spiritual side to it, and you have to believe and have faith that what you are doing will work, with modern medicine you dont, its unrelated. incantations that are used in the craft are similar to prayers, prayers to mother nature, you work a spell then leave it in the hands of the powers that be. modern medicine holds no resembelence to this

My point is that witchcraft is not about beliefs but practice. It is a craft that can take many years to learn but it is not something you can learn in a book. How would you learn it without initating into a coven?

[norseman]

Originally Posted by Chrode

Can you be a doctor without education? Witchcraft is not a faith but a craft...

I think it would be a mistake to regard the Craft like a recipe book. It is much more than just knowledge which can be taught.
In my opinion, I am not sure if "knowledge" is the right word to use. There is an Emotional content and Mental disciplines which can only come from experience. The Craft is not about dogmatic rituals and robes and titles [compare with the Catholic Church], it is more about ways of thinking and feeling, and life-styles. Given that so-called "Magic" is the channeling and directing of natural Earth energies and that channeling/directing is a mental discipline, it calls into question your relationship with the Earth. If you don't get that right, you can chant and dance in a circle to the end of time to no avail.
I don't follow a Path, I seek to become part of the Path. I don't seek to "own" the Land, it owns me. I am not the master but the servant.

Now, I do know that many wiccans reject the Craft part and concentrate purely on the Spiritual/Religious aspects, and there is no problem with that.
Wicca is a gentle faith with many redeeming features and can stand on it's own feet.

"How would you learn it without initating into a coven?" You learn by experience, by doing !

Originally Posted by norseman

I think it would be a mistake to regard the Craft like a recipe book. It is much more than just knowledge which can be taught.
In my opinion, I am not sure if "knowledge" is the right word to use. There is an Emotional content and Mental disciplines which can only come from experience. The Craft is not about dogmatic rituals and robes and titles [compare with the Catholic Church], it is more about ways of thinking and feeling, and life-styles. Given that so-called "Magic" is the channeling and directing of natural Earth energies and that channeling/directing is a mental discipline, it calls into question your relationship with the Earth. If you don't get that right, you can chant and dance in a circle to the end of time to no avail.
I don't follow a Path, I seek to become part of the Path. I don't seek to "own" the Land, it owns me. I am not the master but the servant.

Now, I do know that many wiccans reject the Craft part and concentrate purely on the Spiritual/Religious aspects, and there is no problem with that.
Wicca is a gentle faith with many redeeming features and can stand on it's own feet.

"How would you learn it without initating into a coven?" You learn by experience, by doing !

What is you source to call that "witchcraft"?

[norseman]

Originally Posted by Chrode

What is you source to call that "witchcraft"?

Not sure I understand your question

Think we are closer than you think. You call it "practice", I call it "experience"

Originally Posted by Chrode

My point is that witchcraft is not about beliefs but practice. It is a craft that can take many years to learn but it is not something you can learn in a book. How would you learn it without initating into a coven?

but you are quoting and following guidelines from a book are you not? you said that gardener says in his book that youmust be part of a covern, so you are doing exactly what you say you cant learn from a book ;)

there are basics when it comes to the craft, certain colours represent certain elements etc, but nothing is set in stone, it is important to know and understand the different phases of the moon, and how it will affect any spells you wish to cast but if you study witch craft...everything i have read and discovered says and proves there are very few set rules, it is intent and trust in nature that is the key ingredient. i am not however saying that you are wrong to be in a covern, not by a long shot....this is the way in which it suits you, you follow a certain book which tells you to do things in a certain way, as do your covern and that works for you, which is all that matters, that you have faith and belief in what you are doing, and that you enjoy it and go forward with good intent, then no harm done. i believe in what i do, and i love it, its with me all the time, and its all around me...its nature. i agree (again) with norseman that we are servants of the earth, we can only ask for things to be a certain way and try to channel the energies to go a certain way, but sometimes there is another plan in mind and you have to trust that. is nice to hear different perspectives though for sure. i have often wondered about a covern, but i know it wouldnt be my thing, buy hey...thats just me!! :)

Out of interest... do you consider yourself pagan? There is a forum for pagans

Originally Posted by loumoon

but you are quoting and following guidelines from a book are you not? you said that gardener says in his book that youmust be part of a covern, so you are doing exactly what you say you cant learn from a book ;)

there are basics when it comes to the craft, certain colours represent certain elements etc, but nothing is set in stone, it is important to know and understand the different phases of the moon, and how it will affect any spells you wish to cast but if you study witch craft...everything i have read and discovered says and proves there are very few set rules, it is intent and trust in nature that is the key ingredient. i am not however saying that you are wrong to be in a covern, not by a long shot....this is the way in which it suits you, you follow a certain book which tells you to do things in a certain way, as do your covern and that works for you, which is all that matters, that you have faith and belief in what you are doing, and that you enjoy it and go forward with good intent, then no harm done. i believe in what i do, and i love it, its with me all the time, and its all around me...its nature. i agree (again) with norseman that we are servants of the earth, we can only ask for things to be a certain way and try to channel the energies to go a certain way, but sometimes there is another plan in mind and you have to trust that. is nice to hear different perspectives though for sure. i have often wondered about a covern, but i know it wouldnt be my thing, buy hey...thats just me!! :)

I don't follow guidelines from a book. I just give you facts that witchcraft is something you can't learn yourself. It can only be learned bye initating into a coven. As i remember Gardner say "only a witch can create an another witch". Be in pact with nature have nothing to do with witchcraft. Many pagans do that. The practice of magic don't make you a witch but a magician just...