Why?

"Who are you and who am I
To say we know the reason why?
Some are born
Some men die
Beneath one infinite sky
There'll be war
There'll be peace
But everything one day will cease
All the iron turned to rust
All the proud men turned to dust
And so all things, time will mend
So this song will end "


Pink Floyd

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

It is the same reason you started this this thread, so you could admire your version of 'truth' and 'talk about it'.. you show no inclination of a serious discussion, just the same ol' preachy stuff..

Be well..

you're a very good critic Tzu, you should review movies or something...

Originally Posted by sound

lol well at least that answer has a little more rhythm and rhyme about it ... to be honest ... it stings a little ... who on here doesn't want to talk?

it stings does it?

heh, heh,

a symptom of the egoic sense of self... taking something personally, it's amazing how we do that...

it's amazing how we own things

we identify with things

make it our own

my thoughts

my money

my body

isn't life a hoot!

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Ahh, Din passes judgement.. and, yes, i do enjoy your flirtation with yourself, seducing your own self-image..

Be well..

self image?

you mean who i think i am?

now that's a good pointer!

Greetings..

Originally Posted by din

self image?

you mean who i think i am?

now that's a good pointer!

Here's the deal, Din.. you preach your beliefs, but fail to engage in actual discourse that might reveal the 'isness' of the difference between our perspectives..

There is actually an existent 'you'/identity present and necessary for each functioning version of the Whole to actually function.. there is an actual separation between this existent TzuJanLi and your existent Din (i'm here and you're where ever you are), in the same manner as we are inseparably united as a functioning whole, we are both.. and it is necessary to attend to both in approximately equal measure, so long as we are manifested in the physical experience.. you passionate belief that the identity and separation do not exist cannot be supported by valid evidence, and.. your sermons and your proclamations of judgement are no measure of validity..

There is a discernable difference between your belief about this issue and my understanding of it.. what is your explanation of that situation other than an actual separation of perspectives, of understandings, and of individual indentities based on unique and verifiable individual histories.. we each hold our internal landscape of personal histories, unique memories, beliefs, opinions and understandings, as our unique and existent identities which account for the functional diversity of Life.. otherwise, there would be naught but a bland hum of flacid and mindless drones, stagnant and declining into irrelevance.. What is your counter-proposal, Din? please explain your position clearly.

Be well, all else is..

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Here's the deal, Din.. you preach your beliefs, but fail to engage in actual discourse that might reveal the 'isness' of the difference between our perspectives..

There is actually an existent 'you'/identity present and necessary for each functioning version of the Whole to actually function.. there is an actual separation between this existent TzuJanLi and your existent Din (i'm here and you're where ever you are), in the same manner as we are inseparably united as a functioning whole, we are both.. and it is necessary to attend to both in approximately equal measure, so long as we are manifested in the physical experience.. you passionate belief that the identity and separation do not exist cannot be supported by valid evidence, and.. your sermons and your proclamations of judgement are no measure of validity..

There is a discernable difference between your belief about this issue and my understanding of it.. what is your explanation of that situation other than an actual separation of perspectives, of understandings, and of individual indentities based on unique and verifiable individual histories.. we each hold our internal landscape of personal histories, unique memories, beliefs, opinions and understandings, as our unique and existent identities which account for the functional diversity of Life.. otherwise, there would be naught but a bland hum of flacid and mindless drones, stagnant and declining into irrelevance.. What is your counter-proposal, Din? please explain your position clearly.

Be well, all else is..

my counter proposal is very simple, we make up this reality as we go along with the thoughts we identify about it

in my own case it has been seen quite clearly there is no one really here, i'm not who i thought i was, period!

so, in fact there's no one over there also called Tzu, there may ideas whirling around in a head somewhere about someone named Tzu, but that is just another thought popping up in my head

there is only one reality and i am it

and you are it

and everyone is it

but that reality is not something we share

that reality is all that exists

and within that reality there are appearances of a me and a you that appear to be communicating

now there's no way in hell i can prove this to you

you'll simply have to find this out by yourself

it's not something you need to try hard at

all you have to do is let go of everything you know

came across this quote a while ago which is saying pretty well the same thing i'm talking about and would like to share it with you guys

here it is:

"It is in surrendering a false and illusory liberty on the superficial level that man unites himself with the inner ground of reality and freedom in himself which is the will of God, of Krishna, of Providence, of Tao. These concepts do not exactly coincide, but have much in common. It is by remaining open to an infinite number of unexpected possibilities which transcend his own imagination and capacity to plan that man really fulfills his own need for freedom. The Gita, like the Gospels, teaches us to live in awareness of an inner truth that exceeds the grasp of our thought and cannot be subject to our own control. In following mere appetite for power we are slaves to our own control. In obedience to that truth we are at last free."
- Thomas Merton, The Asian Journal of Thomas Merton

it is in letting go completely all thought of who you are, and this can only be done in this moment!

because that's all there really is

there's no real past or future, these are just thoughts

any idea you have about yourself being a "someone" who exists in time and space, who has a life, who has a past and as future, is just a thought based reality that exists only in your head

in reality there is only God, awareness, spirit, whatever you want to call it, and it is living life through the idea of us, we are simply a thought in God's mind

[GentleStrength]

Originally Posted by din

then you are caught in the dream of time, hope you're enjoying it!

Regardless of whether you believe it to be of any worth or not, yes I am most certainly enjoying the dream reality of time/space.

Just because this reality is created by the beliefs we hold both individually and collectively doesn't invalidate its worth or truth. I also believe that the entire universe is "just" the creation of the source consciousness, I am happy to be a part of it while incarnate and also when discarnate. Joyful experience in both!

Love and Light

[GentleStrength]

Originally Posted by din

so, in fact there's no one over there also called Tzu, there may ideas whirling around in a head somewhere about someone named Tzu, but that is just another thought popping up in my head

there is only one reality and i am it

Ahh, true solipsism. So if the interactions with other forum members is just an idea in your mind only I have to ask, why do you do it at all? Isn't it then just a form of mental masturbation where you discuss concepts with other parts of "yourself" without recognizing them as real or worthwhile to communicate with?

I will continue to believe in my personal reality while also accepting that you have one as well that is just as valid as mine. Have a lot more friends this way!

Love and Light

[sound]

Originally Posted by din

it stings does it?

heh, heh,

a symptom of the egoic sense of self... taking something personally, it's amazing how we do that...

Within the framework of your beliefs (surrounding ego) would you say your expression of sarcasm is any less a symptom of the egoic sense of self than my expression of being 'stung' by it?