Transubstantiation.

[Redchic12]

Miss H. You quote:

“A priest can show up drunk being called for the Last Rites...it does not diminish his blessing...nor does it turning a wafer into the Eucharist”

No it doesn’t deminish the priest on a soul level but it certainly diminishes the blessing thru the lack of respect for God and the patient. IMO

Regarding your points about Psychic, PM, Medium and also the drunk is a completely different scenario imo

The behaviour of these three people regarding alcohol, theft and corruption is no comparison to the loss of a child’s innocence/life. The first three are unskillful behaviours the can be cured but the last one is a tragic loss that lasts a lifetime.

Surely the blessing of the Eucharist HAS to be effected by the person who commits evil acts on a regular basis. Wouldn’t his energy be contaminated.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

... Surely the blessing of the Eucharist HAS to be effected by the person who commits evil acts on a regular basis. Wouldn’t his energy be contaminated.

This is something to ponder on ...

I think that the priest is only a conduit for God's blessing. Does the quality of the conduit affect God's decision to bless somebody, because the conduit is unworthy? It shouldn't.

The blessing comes from God, not form the priest, or am I wrong on this?

I think that the best approach is for everybody to pray to, and get guidance from God, directly, One on one. There might be people with some temporary or mental impairment, but everybody else should be able to bypass the middleman.

[Guillaume]

*Deleted*

So, what do the scriptures say about people relying on "spiritual drugs" to access higher states of consciousness?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Guillaume

*Deleted*

So, what do the scriptures say about people relying on "spiritual drugs" to access higher states of consciousness?

Forget the scriptures...the Rules here say NO talking about drugs in any way.
Found under FAQ.

Redchic, what inavalan said. :)

[Redchic12]

Thank you Invalan. You state

“I think that the priest is only a conduit for God's blessing. Does the quality of the conduit affect God's decision to bless somebody, because the conduit is unworthy? It shouldn't.

It isn’t the worthiness I was thinking about but more about polarities. There’s pure energy and negative energy. Wouldn’t one repel the other. Maybe God will still let the blessing go thru but NOT via the contaminated priest. I mean how can the pure energy of God possibly pass thru someone with so much negative/evil energy in and around him.

But we all have free will and if we fill our body mind and thoughts with continuous evil acts then surely God can’t pass his Pure energy thru them because his negative thoughts and actions will reject that pure energy. Again free will.

Heres another thought, he may put on a robe and say he is a priest but what guarantee do we have that he is actually doing Gods work.

Yes I agree the priest is SUPPOSED to be a conduit for Gods blessing but that is only what we have been told by the church but NOT by God. IMO

But maybe we should look deeply into our own hearts and see what WE believe and as Inavalan says, pray directly to God without the middleman.

I wonder if it states in the bible that only a priest can do a blessing. I would be very interested in knowing that. But then again it was the churches scribes that transcribed Jesus’ words wasn’t it, so maybe that isn’t reliable either.

INVALAN you stated………”think that the best approach is for everybody to pray to, and get guidance from God, directly, One on one”

A very important point and I totally agree with that.

[Miss Hepburn]

Many marriages would be invalid, then...sky brought that up to me once.
But, I see, Redchic, you are set in your thinking on this...I'm dropping it.
Me? I know someone evil, like Charlie Manson can still do good things and say incredibly wise words.
God can plow right through that 'negativity', imo.
LOL, one time my doctor had a pack of cigarettes in his shirt pocket...
TOO funny for me...I still followed his advice.
I know, they don't compare.

[Redchic12]

Yes your right I am set in my thinking on this as I’ve seen first hand the damaged children.

Ok yeah lets move on. Sounds good to me.

[Miss Hepburn]

I thought so; it was portrayed well in Ray Donovan - HBO, in his adult kid brother.
Do I think these priests should be in prison, you bet I do...along with those that protected them letting it happen more!
I'm sure everyone feels this way.

Originally Posted by inavalan

I think that the best approach is for everybody to pray to, and get guidance from God, directly, One on one. There might be people with some temporary or mental impairment, but everybody else should be able to bypass the middleman.

First of all….the conduit….quality matters…if arteries can be clogged then so can any conduit….if the priest doesn’t like me will the blessing be given with sincerity ?

The Church inflates the necessity of the middleman for obvious reasons. Communion is at the invitation of Christ not the church. One on one….yes absolutely…..if I have a problem on Monday must I wait until Sunday to see the priest? Anyone that does not believe that God is not able to speak to us directly diminishes the power of God.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by inavalan

If you really want to understand what it is about, then it is simple: all is symbolical.

I was looking around the internet reading about transubstantiation and I stumbled on this web site that reported the statistics on how many Catholics believed the bread and wine were literally changed into the body and blood of Christ and how many thought it was symbolic or metaphorical and the results were pretty interesting.

The more often a person went to mass weekly the higher the statistic they believed it was literal. But overall it was something like 35% of Catholics thought it was turned into the body and blood of Christ and 65% thought it was symbolic. I think the Church dogma itself says it is literal though the language is vague and open to interpretation and says clearly in writing what actually "happens" is a mystery humankind will never know.

In the Catholic church the Latin term is mysterium fidei, "mystery of faith", defined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to mean a mystery hidden in God, which can never be known. The transformation of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ, the virgin birth etc.