what does "beyond good and evil'' mean in regard to non duality

[saurab]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

In such a scenario, with oneness recognised and love being the only real substance, there is no possibility to harm anyone.

that is why i asked what does "beyond good and evil mean" ? it is not just some empty words. so what do you think it means ?

according to me it means "being good and embracing evil PEOPLE, including them, rather than excluding them"

[Gem]

Just did a quick scan through and saw no reference to Nietzsche, but since he wrote the book behind the title of the thread I think he deserves a mention.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by saurab

Non duality pandits often say that reality is nondual, absolutely beyond good and evil. Have you wondered what that means ?

Non duality means the oneness or wholeness (that does not have any opposites/oppositions) that is god or the universe.

Good and evil or god and the devil/satan/lucifer and the like are concepts, ideas, and ideologies of (organized) religion and spirituality. Good and evil is purely subjective opinion.

Reality, ultimate or otherwise is the universe that we are conscious, and aware of and that we perceive and don't perceive with our senses.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by saurab

that is why i asked what does "beyond good and evil mean" ? it is not just some empty words. so what do you think it means ?

according to me it means "being good and embracing evil PEOPLE, including them, rather than excluding them"

This seems to be a step in the right direction but it still involves judgements of good and evil.

If we are truly "beyond good and evil" then the question of being good does not arise. And there are no evil people to be embraced.

There is simply us being what we are and others being what they are. Labels of good or evil are just thoughts arising in the mind.

And we can take it a stage further and recognise that there is no "us" and "others". There is just one Being within which the idea of "us" and "others" arises.

Peace

[saurab]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Non duality means the oneness or wholeness (that does not have any opposites/oppositions) that is god or the universe.

i think, but am not sure, since I dont know your mind, that you are just translating the english language meaning of the word nonduality in what you write about it, when you say that there are no opposites. Does that mean, in a subtle sense, that once you attain to nonduality there are no thoughts opposing thoughts in your consciousness ever ? Reality cannot ever be nondual, because of the thinking process that persists even after enlightenment. Awareness is non dual, thought is dual. So, if such be the fact, what can one say about reality ? It is both dual and non dual.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Good and evil or god and the devil/satan/lucifer and the like are concepts, ideas, and ideologies of (organized) religion and spirituality. Good and evil is purely subjective opinion.

My friend, I have experienced my atman or higher self and have asked him questions about God, and he said tht God does indeed exist and is not just a concept. Also you have some very absurd ideas about good and evil being concepts. You will certainly not call them concepts if someone cuts off your leg and arm. Then and definitely then, you will have a sudden and sure awakening to the reality of good and evil not as concepts but as hard reality. It seems my friend that you are living on empty words lifted from the internet about nonduality.

[saurab]

Originally Posted by iamthat

This seems to be a step in the right direction but it still involves judgements of good and evil.

It does not involve judgment of good and evil, but recognition of good and evil. Knowing good from evil which comes from your buddhi. It has nothing to do with emotional or mental judgmentalism.

[charly233]

Originally Posted by iamthat

This seems to be a step in the right direction but it still involves judgements of good and evil.

I don't believe in evil because it seems to imply moralistic value judgements that promote condemnation and punishment. But I do believe there is ignorant behaviour sometimes that has unpleasent or "bad" consequences.

It seems to me that it is moral and correct to judge these bad bahaviors as such.

I agree that there is only one Being and we are all that being. At the absolute level there are no others, just Me. But at the relative level of everyday life, separate individuals do at least seem to exist. And it is necessary to use one's judgement in creating intelligent boundaries between these individuals.

I believe in the Golden Rule: treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. This is a moral law of the universe. It is "bad", but not evil, to break this law.

[saurab]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Labels of good or evil are just thoughts arising in the mind.

There is a reason why they arise, and they will keep arising when you witness evil even after enlightenment. Not just the labels of good and evil, but the RECOGNITION of good and evil.

Originally Posted by iamthat

And we can take it a stage further and recognise that there is no "us" and "others". There is just one Being within which the idea of "us" and "others" arises.

Only Brahman or Holy Spirit can say that I am I (or I am Brahman). You and I are too small and low in consciousness to say that.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by saurab

, you will have a sudden and sure awakening to the reality of good and evil not as concepts but as hard reality. It seems my friend that you are living on empty words lifted from the internet about nonduality.

What Mikey Mike is trying to say is that beyond what good and evil means or represents there would be no judgements made .

This is the common mistake made by non dualists that don't have a comparison for beyondness .

How can on one hand there be a reference for beyond good and evil and then try and tar that with an experience of having their leg cut off that is not beyond the concept of beyond good and evil?


x daz x

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by saurab

Reality cannot ever be nondual, because of the thinking process that persists even after enlightenment. Awareness is non dual, thought is dual. So, if such be the fact, what can one say about reality ? It is both dual and non dual.

Reality is that brahman is all and all is brahman. How can brahman have any opposites and oppositions, when all there is, is brahman? Atman or the so called higher self are also brahman. A person's mind and thoughts either mirrors or aligns with this reality or not.

Originally Posted by saurab

My friend, I have experienced my atman or higher self and have asked him questions about God, and he said tht God does indeed exist and is not just a concept.

I did not question the existence/presence of god, I question there being an opposite of and opposition to god. As I said above, there can not be an opposite of and opposition to god, when god is all there is.

You comparing good and evil to someone cutting an arm and a leg off, when you do not experience it for yourself, is comparing apples to oranges